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Grandson and the "cupboard"

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It almost sounds Indian (is there anyone of Indian descent here who could help) the way he rolls his tongue on the l.
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Kitn, I hope you meant an Indian Indian and not an American Indian. If so, sorry to disappoint you. By the way, I wrote my replies to this thread twice so far and erased them before posting, because I had doubts about what I had to say.

There are many clues in your posts to suggest an Indian or near Indian (i.e. Pakistan, Afghanistan, Central Asia) connection but there are many also that would discount an Indian connection. I will start with the leaves. In elementary grade projects, it is common to flatten leaves by storing them in books for some time. One particularly tree is preferred for this purpose ("peepal" tree). If stored long enough, the leaves loose "body" and retain "veins" of cellulose fibres. It looks like a leaf of "screen". These leaves are used as canvas for painting.

Next, cupboard is the commonest word used in India for what are known as cabinets in America. They are used for storing clothing or kitchenware and food like a pantry. Wearing flowers in hair and braiding hair is extremely common in India and has been for ever, but blond hair is not. The word path is also used in India, where we have footpaths in stead of sidewalks. But Tod and Patsy are not Indian names. Blond hair and snow in winter could point to Afghanistan or Central Asia. Use of the term garden to mean yard or backyard is common in India.

Finally, retroflexing of tongue is done for prouncing a set of consonants called cerebral(?) or retroflex sounds. While we are discussing linguistics, "wala" is a common Indian suffix which is added to nouns to indicate an association with the noun. For example, "kalai" means tin, as in tinning of brass or copper untensils, if you remember old days before stainless steel. "Kalaiwala" then means the person who does tinning for a living.
 
Kris thank you very much for the information. I did not know if you listened to the wav of his pronunciation of the word. I did think about India with his tongue rolling. Grandma Patsy is his other grandma now; maybe I was not clear writing that. He mentioned his other "grandmother". Would the words you wrote to describe a tin maker sound like what he is saying?

He insists you must save them for later and paint the leaves. He thinks Kaleval is some sort of celebration where everyone can go. Does that fit India? I am searching the net. If I can find about where he is talking about, I could research about a mother being shot while a child hiding in the cupboard. Is burial or cremation common in that area?

He talks about his other mother's burial. Another thing, which may be just a fluke, is when you ask him where Kalaval or his other mother is, he points east. He does not know directions so this is probably just by chance??? His mom drove him home and when they got to the 4-way stop sign he said "if you want to go to my other mother's house you go that way and pointed east. They live west.
 
I had thought about Kaleva Michigan when I read your post (because the name sounds so similar), but Kaleva's festival is a Harvest Festival and takes place in the fall. It is a very small community affair. It consists of a small craft show and a farmer's market. Although it was settled by finnish, there is very little of the finnish heritage there. Any mines in the area closed down over century ago. In the 1900s up until the 70s it was a farming community and now most of the people there are retirees. As far as I know, there has never been in shootings there. Just a peaceful, small village nestled into a hilly terrain.
 
I heard the audio tape. He sounds very sweet. I cannot relate "kallavaal" to anything I know, including "kalaiwala". But India is a huge country, almost several countries within a country. How much can I know about her(India)? There are local festivals unique to practically every village and there are hundreds of thousands of villages. A very popular and revered goddess in India is goddess Kali. Festivals in her honor are celebrated in many regions of India. It is possible, though I do not know this for a fact, that such a festival somewhere is called "kaliwala" festival or something like that. By the way, cremation is more common in India; however Moslems and Christians practice burial. All I can suggest is to be patient and give him more time to come up with something that is more specific.I wish you and Kade good luck and god's abundant grace.
 
Kades pronunciation of the word Kaleval reminded me so much of the way asian Indians speak. Don't be put off by the descriptions and names of his other family, as India was part of the British empire until after WW2 and a great deal of British people lived and worked there.
 
Hi Kris,
If Kade says that they put dirt on her and also that she is outside in the garden, could she have been buried in the garden?
Vicky
 
Garden

Hi Vicky,
I do not know. I tend to think his other mother spent a lot of time outside in the garden with him. She must have planted since he knew about seeds and how to rake and hoe.

He thinks we can look in the garden for her. But again he wanted me to call her on the phone. So I am confused myself. He said she was shot and buried. Where she is buried I would have no idea. Maybe one day he will say more. I wait for him to bring up "other" things.

It seems each day he says something new even if it is very minor. I think he believes his other mother is alive and just some other place.
 
Hi Kitn,
Its interesting that he wants you to call her on the phone. That may indicate a time frame if they had phones then.
My son wanted us to buy another house because he thought when we moved in there that his other family would be there. However, in his case, it worked to explain to him that life is over and now he has chosen this life to be with us. He is 5 and 1/2 so maybe when Kade gets older, it'll be easier for him to understand.
I'm so fascinated by Kade's story because it sounds like there is actually a possibility that you can figure out where he came from if not who he actually was.
I'm sure others on this site have suggested that you write everything down.
He's lucky to have you.
Vicky
 
Telephones

Thank you Vicky. Yes I am recording everything for him later. I believe in time, if this is past life memories, that he will forget. Did your son forget? We have been given clues, yet they may be misleading. For instance the car, we now go everywhere by car and he may think that is the way to go now. As for the telephone, he may believe because we call on the phone now that we can call "then." The clues I can rely on, and I have been searching the internet constantly, is Kalava and his pronunciation, it is snowy celebration, cupboard, goodies, garden, shooting, Tod, braids, hills and his intensity when he "presses leaves." This is not much to go on. We were playing Rumplestiltskin today he was the troll and I was the princess. I was holding the doll and he said "Kelava has tents". But I do not know if that was just in the playing or if it was a memory. That opened up a conversation again and I thought I could play act. I told him the doll said Kaleva was hot and he said "no". I said the doll said there were camels there and he said "no." I said the doll said she could go to Kaleva and he said "yes she can but she has to wear warm clothes." That was the end of it. It is hard with a three year old.
 
Hi Kitn,
My son didn't forget. He's still remembering. All of this just really started about 6 weeks ago. He has been 'saying things' since he was about two but I think I just thought it was toddler mutterings. Although much of how you describe Kade would fit my son also, bright, early talkers and I understand from reading a lot of other accounts of children talking about past lives that they are usually early talkers. (sometimes even in a different language than what has been taught to them)
Since he started talking about 6 weeks ago, he has told me about three lifetimes. The main one that he started speaking about must have been his last one but his mother died and he had a large family. He told me he was from Africa and indeed seems to know quite a bit about Africa that he would have no other way of knowing. But 6 weeks ago, I wasn't even sure I believed in reincarnation. Now, I feel there is no other rational explanation.
Keep writing on this forum. I can see that there are several people interested in your story and its progress.
Vicky
 
Here is something I found...

I'm not sure if you've found this, yet - but it sounds like it may be something like this:

We had a nice little snowstorm on Friday, reminding our Board of Control members that March is a winter month in the U.P. In the interest of full disclosure, I should point out that two board members are Yoopers (although one is from the Iron Mountain banana belt--does that count?) and one is a part-time Yooper, with a place in Dollar Bay.

The storm's timing was just a bit early, since students weren't due back from spring break until today. Maybe this snow event will serve double duty as the St. Patty's Day storm, too.

My daughter's high school band is supposed to march in the Hancock St. Patrick's Day parade next weekend. Hancock seems to specialize in winter parades--there is one in mid-January each year, too, for the Heikinpaiva mid-winter celebration.

The St. Patrick's Day event seems a bit of a stretch (suffering, perhaps, from a dose of the blarney, is it now?), as the parade route demonstrates. Marchers in their green snowsuits will travel by restaurants called "Kaleva" and "Gemignani's," not to mention the Finnish Mutual Life building and a florist called Kukkakauppa. It ends at Gino's. Maybe his last name was O'Toole, but I doubt it.

As someone who played a brass instrument (as opposed to having a lot of brass, although my wife might tell you I fit that bill, too), I cringe at the thought of playing outside in sub-freezing temperatures. I can just feel my lips stick to the mouthpiece, like that kid who touches his tongue to a cold flagpole on a dare. Hello cold steel, goodbye taste buds.
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Hi Kitn, :)

Did you find anything else about Kalevala that you can relate to what your grandson has been saying?
Please keep us posted.
 
Another thing about Kaleva that I forgot to mention. It's probably not important, but just in case this is the place your grandson is thinking of, Kaleva is "famous" for it's glass bottle house. It's a house that is totally covered in glass bottles on the outside, sort of like glass bottle bricks. It's been around since the 60s I believe. :)
 
elephants

Hi,
I have been reading posts but not much new with my grandson. I have been searching all over the net for someone to help me with his pronunciation of calava or whatever it is he is saying. I wrote to a professor at Stanford and he was kind enough to reply. I asked him to listen to Kade's pronunciation and maybe if he can help I can search more. There are so many ways to spell khalavall-calavall that I just can't find anything. If I knew the correct pronunciation or dialect or even the spelling, I could do more. I did read about the bottle house, but for some reason I do not think that is the place. I am thinking more of the Himalaya region; why I don't know. He went in my deceased daughter's room today and brought out a stuffed elephant from the circus and a blue horse. We began playing with them and he said his other dad rode him on an elephant. He has never been to a circus. I asked him where you ride and he pointed to his back. I know the my other kids when they were small would take the elephant rides at the circus, but he has not. I did not ask anything else. I did wonder about elephants and if there are any near a region which has snow. That is what I am looking for on the internet today.

My daughter also said she found him in the kitchen cabinet whispering last week. She said she tried to listen but could not hear what he was saying. They just moved into the house so the cabinets are bare right now. She will put child locks on them before she stores anything in them.

I try to follow my instinct. I will tell you something that may sound weird, but it is true. When my husband was killed by a hit and run driver while walking home, the police picked me up and took me to the hospital. They did not know at the time if it was deliberate or accidental. They asked me if I knew anyone who would do that to him and I blurted out the drivers name. I then apologized and said I don't know why I said that-I'm sorry. I did not know who did it. Two days later they found the drunk driver and the driver had the name I blurted out. I will never know why I did that, it was like something in my head told me the name. After that I know they all wondered how I knew; but I don't even know.

From then on I trust my instinct or intuition or whatever it is. Something keeps telling me Himalayian region. If anyone can help me I would be grateful. I need dialect recognized or correct spelling of the word. Are there elephants there?
 
Hi Kitn,

I found some articles about the Himalayan region and there are elephants there! Actually, a lot of them... Just google "Himalayan elephants" ... :thumbsup:
I wanted to copy and paste some articles and make it easier for you but my pc is acting up right now and won't allow me, sorry... :o

Hope that helps...
 
Hall not hallway

Thanks, I am going to search for elephants. Who calls a room a hall? Today he talked about going to the hall. I asked "you mean hallway?" He shook his hand and said "hall". I asked him what it was but he did not know. Any ideas? What kind of room would be called a hall and what would be its function?
 
When I was a little girl we had a Community Hall where I went to Brownies. Perhaps he means a building as opposed to a room in the house. That's the first thing that entered my mind when I read your post. ;)


Ailish
 
I would also think 'Hall' is a building. I associate it with a large building where expositions are held, or where (pop)concerts are, so IMO it could easily be associated with a festival also.
 
Thanks I should have been clearer. He said when he got out of the cupboard he went to the hall. That is when I asked if he meant hallway. I asked him what the hall was but he did not know. Thanks everyone.....
 
In India, hall is what is called living room in America. It is usually the largest room in the house and furnished to receive guests.

In addition, the word hall is also used as Eevee and Ailish have suggested.
 
I wanted to let you know how the conversation came to kaleval. He wanted a piece of hard candy (I crush them with a knife and put the pieces on a plate) so I set him up on the countertop so he could watch me. He said his other mother gave him candy. I asked him if she crushed it and he said no. Thinking I could trick him I said "there is no Keleval is there? and he adamantly said "yes there is." I asked him where it was and he shrugged his shoulders. I then asked him where his other mother is and he said she was dead. I asked "where did you go when you got out of the cupboard?" That is when he said" I went into the hall" I asked hallway and he said "no not hallway the hall." I asked what is the hall and he said " I don't know it is in Kaleval and my other father is there." That was the end of the conversation. So maybe Kaleval is a place. I did read that sometimes a hall is a building separate from the living quarters. Maybe at his age he was small and remembers parties, dancing, goodies and a good time; with snow outside. It could be something traumatic makes him remember the kitchen and cupboard. It is very hard with a three years-old. I will keep listening and try to piece things together. As for now I no longer believe kelaval is a festival.

If evee is hall,,,maybe kal evee val is seperate words?
Anyone have any ideas to help in my search? I tried looking in the India dictionary, but without knowing if they pronounce letters differently I get so many words.
 
When I was listening to Kade's pronunciation, I was reminded of my friend Veena. When she speaks about the goddess Kali, it sounded a lot like how Kade was saying it. Like KAH-lee. So I tried typing in Kali Valley, and found that it is a place.

"At one time, the Kali Valley was the standard trade route from India to Tibet, crossing over the Lipu Lekh pass. The Mahakali originates north of the main Himalayan range, carves its way through the Greater Himalayas and merges with the Ganga."

You may be on to something with India. :D And they do have elephants there!


Ailish
 
Ailise, thank you very much. The pronunciation is what was keeping me from finding anything. I will search and see if I can find Vall (he rolls his tongue) and if that may mean valley. I am off to search for the Kali Valley.
 
This is what I found. I do not know if any of this fits. There was a shooting in Nepal of a whole family. Most of the family was shot in the billiard room, the youngest boy was 22 and he followed his mother into the garden where she was shot in the head. The shooter came out of a "cupboard." The shooter was the older brother and there was a sister. The father was shot in the billiard room. There was a total of 10 shot that night. I found a map of the building but lost it searching. The billiard room opened out to the "garden" which I would call a backyard or patio area. This was June 1, 2001. He was born March 28, 2002.

The family was all cremated which does not fit. The blonde hair does not fit, but his mommy now has blonde hair. It is near the Kahli Valley and there is a river and snow covered mountains. Hilly area fits. Did the boy see his father shot? I will look further. Some things sound like it could be and yet much tends to say no.

It did say the boy was good at sports. My grandson has been able to throw a straight ball since he was two. He also was interested in animals, but arn't all children?
 
I think you are talking about the shooting of the Nepalese royal family??

There should be a lot of information on that available. And pictures of the family and their palace. Unfortunately I don't have time to do a search now.

You're right, there are many things that match - many that don't. I'm sure you'll find out one day! And it could help Kade understanding it's all in the past now.

Karoliina
 
Ps. It's also possible, like earlier suggested, that Kade is remembering two or several past lives, and mixing them up in his head.

K
 
I received another email from a professor at Stanford. He listened to the link of my grandson talking. Here is his answer.

Thank you for resending this; I did actually figure out how to work it and heard Kade. You are right that he pronounces this difficult word with ease and emphasis. I personally could not figure out what it might be; as I said before, it might be helpful to have a Tibetan speaker listen to it. All the other stuff he says is classically found in other cases of reincarnation as reported by Stevenson: the age (3 years), the talk of "the other mother," a great attention/obsession with some details of a previous life, etc. You should take some video of Kade when he is talking, and you should try and ask him details about his other life by asking open-ended questions. What kind of place is it? What do the homes look like? Do you remember the names of any people there? What did your other mother look like? etc. According to Stevenson, the chances are that if he is a case of reincarnation that he will come up with further details as his vocabulary expands. With best wishes,

I wish I could take a video, but someone stole my daughters camcorder. He is right the boy does have a limited vocabulary.
 
Kitn said:
He is right the boy does have a limited vocabulary.
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Maybe give him pencils and paper while asking him the questions? If he can't put words to what he is remembering maybe he could draw pictures of them.
 
A few possibilities:

The mom's blonde hair: she could have either dyed her hair - or she was wearing a wig.

Cremation: Perhaps the boy (Nirajan?) may have seen her mother ashes buried.

I could be wrong - and maybe she is remembering more than one past life. This is just an idea, though.
 
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