How do you forgive?

[HoosierMama]

I have been thinking and praying a lot the past couple of days since I first came here and started to think that I may have a past life. I have gotten some wonderful advice from the people here and I think I am starting to believe that my dreams may actually be from a past life.

The problem that keep hitting up against is the fact that in my dreams (which I posted yesterday), I do not believe I was a very good person. I know that some people here have said that I am different now (and dear lord, I am!) but whenever I think of those poor people and the suffering they must have gone through at my hands (I fear that I will remember or dream more awful things) I can't help but feel so upset and guilty.

I don't even know how I can be here having done such things! I know that some people have said things about something called 'karma' but there seem to be so many different opinions on it, and I don't know what to think. The memories I have are of such a bad person, the kind of person I've been raised all my life to believe should be in (excuse me for saying this) Hell with people like Adolf Hitler and Osama Bin Laden and Jeffrey Dahmer.

But I am not in hell. If these dreams are true then I am here, not in that unspeakable place. But I don't understand how I am not. I know these things are in the past but I still feel guilty. I don't seem to have been "punished" at all for doing what I might have done. I am a good person. I have a good family and a loving husband. I go to church and donate to people who need it. How can I be who I am now and have been that person then? And if I was, how can I forgive myself and make amends for what I did?

Anyone's thoughts would be appreciated.

 

[Mama2HRB]

In each lifetime there are lessons that we must learn. Your posting here shows that you, indeed, did learn the lessons of that lifetime. Continue to make a difference in the lives of others. It is always good to help when you can.

 

[Nightrain]

Sometimes, when I'm alone, a long-forgotten memory from this life will remind me of something that I had done long ago, but had thought nothing of—until now. I will say to myself, "Oh my God, could I have really done or said such a thing?". I become embarrassed and deeply saddened, realizing that nothing can be done about it now. It is too late to apologize or to compensate the victim in any way, because they are dead by now or moved to some unknown location. Perhaps I never knew their name. Perhaps my words or actions existentially hurt other people like tidal waves emanating from the center of my act.


I was always a conscientious person who over-analyzed everything, but it didn't keep me from joining the Army and finding myself in a place forty-four years ago in which there occurred a massacre of civilians. Although I didn't fire a shot in that particular situation, I have carried that memory with me ever since, and it had the effect of paralyzing my spirit for quite a while—that is, until I realized that I was no good to anyone as long as I continued to escape reality by every means possible. I HAD to forgive myself! Not only for being a part of something so heinous, but also for disloyalty to my fellow troops.


I can't say it was easy; nor can I say that it was entirely successful. But, one thing that helped a great deal was the concept of Reincarnation, plus a conversation between Krishna and Arjuna as told in the "Bhagavad Gita". Prince Arjuna was overlooking the camp of his enemy with one night before battle as he recognized with trepidation that he would have to fight the very people he once loved, but who wished to usurp his crown. Krishna, his wise adviser, said to him that we live a thousand lives and death means nothing. All that will be remembered of the coming battle will be that a great prince did what he knew had to be done to save his kingdom and the people in it.


Of course, this is not to say that Prince Arjuna was really doing the right thing. What it does mean is that death comes to us all, and that we should not let fear of death or anything else deter us from our duty. Like one fellow soldier once said to me, "What's the worst that can happen? We might die, but then we won't have to go through this bulls**t tomorrow. "It don't mean nuthin'!"


By the same token, what's the worst you have ever done? Who hasn't done something stupid or bad in their life? You make mistakes and you learn from it, then you die. So what? Don't worry 'bout it! You forgive yourself!


And if someone hurts you, or especially a loved one, you eventually have to come to grips with the fact that they will eventually have to feel the pain they caused. That's another good thing about understanding Reincarnation. Even though Karma is not about punishment, there is the realization that we all have to face the effects of whatever we have done—good or bad.

 

[Aelfgyva]

Eternal Love...


The aganda of a soul remains a mystery to our simple human minds...I do know that without darkness we would not know the meaning of light, without hate, the meaning of love! I personally do not believe in hell...I believe in a love that is also beyond our consciousness...and you seem to be experiencing that yourself!

 

[crystal_44]

You must learn to forgive yourself. Without that you can't move forward. Give yourself some time to work things through, no hurry. It sounds like you are a wonderful person today, and that's what matters, who you are today.

 

[Owl]

I can't say it was easy; nor can I say that it was entirely successful. But, one thing that helped a great deal was the concept of Reincarnation, plus a conversation between Krishna and Arjuna as told in the "Bhagavad Gita". Prince Arjuna was overlooking the camp of his enemy with one night before battle as he recognized with trepidation that he would have to fight the very people he once loved, but who wished to usurp his crown. Krishna, his wise adviser, said to him that we live a thousand lives and death means nothing. All that will be remembered of the coming battle will be that a great prince did what he knew had to be done to save his kingdom and the people in it.


Of course, this is not to say that Prince Arjuna was really doing the right thing. What it does mean is that death comes to us all, and that we should not let fear of death or anything else deter us from our duty.

WOW, I REALLY like this!! Thank you Nightrain for sharing it! I' ve had a few symbolic dreams that involves killing, they are not nice but in my dream I always repeat "Well, I have to do what has to be done"

 

[Eowyn]

By the same token, what's the worst you have ever done? Who hasn't done something stupid or bad in their life? You make mistakes and you learn from it, then you die. So what? Don't worry 'bout it! You forgive yourself!

But, Nightrain, that's easily said but very hard to do. We're not talking of a child's mischief, I can't tell about all people here, but my memories are not easy to accept and to come to terms with. I'm talking of capturing people, of breaking families apart, of being responsible or at least being an accomplice of slavery and the death of many black people... how can I cope with all that? How can I forgive myself? I need something else than a pat on the back...


I try to leave my past behind as someone else said, but I keep seeing those eyes full of hatred every night when I go to sleep...

 

[Sariel]

I believe karma for transgression is served in the lifetime associated with it, perhaps to outsiders it may look insignificant but within the person it is insurmountable and afterwards the chalkboard is cleaned. God is truly more forgiving than you realize.

 

[usetawuz]

But, Nightrain, that's easily said but very hard to do. We're not talking of a child's mischief, I can't tell about all people here, but my memories are not easy to accept and to come to terms with. I'm talking of capturing people, of breaking families apart, of being responsible or at least being an accomplice of slavery and the death of many black people... how can I cope with all that? How can I forgive myself? I need something else than a pat on the back...
I try to leave my past behind as someone else said, but I keep seeing those eyes full of hatred every night when I go to sleep...

Eowyn...those eyes no longer exist...and what they were looking at no longer exist either. The soul behind the eyes you are looking through now may very well see the soul of the eyes who hated you then...and love everything about you. Imagine the level of love one may be capable of after having understood such abject hate and undergoing such heinous circumstances...the polarity of our experiences here is a key to our purpose.


Hoosiermama...the scenario you describe was a lifetime of very difficult choices and acts; with that, understand nothing happens in a vacuum...the actions taken at that time were based on decisions made to the best of that individual's ability at that time. No one goes into a situation and chooses to do the worst, most awful thing TO someone...they choose to do the best thing FOR themselves.


Also think of the difference between that time and this...in that era life was cheap, whether they were black africans on a slave ship or white englishmen in the wrong part of London. Life on the high seas was a very difficult venture at best and only the hardest and most ruthless men could manage to survive it. Our current sensibilities cannot imagine such a level of inhumanity...a credit to our current development...but there are parts of the world still enmeshed in that previous level of ingorance.


In a similar situation I found a simple prayer...more like a mantra, worked wonders for forgiveness and release of guilt and blame: "I apologize, I thank you, I forgive you, I love you." My best to you both.

 

[Sister Grey]

I've done things I deeply regret in this lifetime. In the whole scheme of things they're minor - I think - but they make me question what kind of person I am, or what kind of soul I have. :grr:


But I think the answer is to focus on the aspects of ourselves that are kind, loving, and nurturing. Everyone has these aspects, even if they may not be readily apparent in any one given lifetime, and it is the answer to forgiving others as well. After that, we just have to carry on and do the best that we can, in whatever situations life gives us.

 

[LightWalker]

I seem to be in a minority as I follow the Michael Teachings, which are very clear on the matter of karmic debt and karmic justice in the case of someone who has harmed another.


If you harm me, you have created a karmic debt and I get to harm you back in order to balance the energies that are unbalanced when karmic debt is created. That's karmic justice. If that is not possible, the universe will act to ensure that some form of karmic justice is served.

The memories I have are of such a bad person, the kind of person I've been raised all my life to believe should be in (excuse me for saying this) Hell with people like Adolf Hitler and Osama Bin Laden and Jeffrey Dahmer.

Although I wasn't raised with the belief in Hell, I do believe that somewhere on Earth, karmic justice is being served in the case of people like Hitler, who is on a far different scale of pure evil as the other two. I can't imagine the type of suffering that he and his evil followers must be enduring, and will have to endure, life after life, to balance the energies of their karmic debt and purify their souls. Perhaps they came back as people who were "ethnically cleansed" like the Bosnians or the Kurds, and this is why these type of activities are still taking place, simply in order for them to have the same experiences as the people they tortured and killed.

 

[usetawuz]

I seem to be in a minority as I follow the Michael Teachings, which are very clear on the matter of karmic debt and karmic justice in the case of someone who has harmed another.
If you harm me, you have created a karmic debt and I get to harm you back in order to balance the energies that are unbalanced when karmic debt is created. That's karmic justice. If that is not possible, the universe will act to ensure that some form of karmic justice is served.


Although I wasn't raised with the belief in Hell, I do believe that somewhere on Earth, karmic justice is being served in the case of people like Hitler, who is on a far different scale of pure evil as the other two. I can't imagine the type of suffering that he and his evil followers must be enduring, and will have to endure, life after life, to balance the energies of their karmic debt and purify their souls. Perhaps they came back as people who were "ethnically cleansed" like the Bosnians or the Kurds, and this is why these type of activities are still taking place, simply in order for them to have the same experiences as the people they tortured and killed.

I don't sense the black and white aspect of a retributional karma. While I have experienced what I would call "instant karma", or an immediate balancing of wrongs I've committed in this lifetime, to me there is less a "repayment in kind" and more an opportunity to see the other side of the actions committed. Further, what I have experienced has never come from those I mistreated, but rather another source, though the relationship was clear. There is also the law of grace which can nullify the necessity of a karmic payment.


As for Hitler and his cronies, they did not act in a vacuum...they were complicit with a populace that enabled the actions they directed...to me, if karma was retributional, the level of karmic debt piled upon them, all of them, is inconceivable, and I don't have any evidence that the universe works that way.

 

[HoosierMama]

thank you everyone for your replies. i have a lot to think about


Light walker said

If you harm me, you have created a karmic debt and I get to harm you back in order to balance the energies that are unbalanced when karmic debt is created. That's karmic justice. If that is not possible, the universe will act to ensure that some form of karmic justice is served.

This is something that I am afraid of. Hitler and the nazis did a lot of very bad things (I do not know a lot about it besides what I was taught in school) but I know that he killed a lot of people and I think a lot of them are still angry about it. But what sickens me is that If my dreams are right, I did a lot of the same things. If I was a slave trader and my dreams are true then I forced innocent people into slavery and broke up families and maybe even outright(and I hate to say this) murdered people. And the worst part is that it was done only for money. I am sure that the people I hurt felt just the same as the people hitler hurt, it was just with less people. How can I forgive myself and why aren't I in the same place as them if what I did was almost the same, but not as much?

 

[usetawuz]

Hoosiermama...remember, Lightwalker also qualified those comments as her beliefs...that doesn't make them the final word. Their are vastly differing views on karma and its workings...some even say Hitler has reincarnated and is living in Minnesota...how is he repaying an enormous karmic debt there?


I had a previous life wherein I was involved in the torturous and bloody death of two dozen men, women and children and I felt the burden of it until I relived it and released it...the question became, if God can forgive me why can I not forgive myself? I can guarantee you I do not know something God doesn't know about! The fact that you live your current life with the level of goodness you experience daily ought to provide some indication as to the lessons you've learned and the atonement you have achieved.

 

[TheAdvisor]

Hoosiermama- I can understand your trepidation on this subject. I too, have had lifetimes where I have done terrible things. During WWII and after shortly I was Russian, and helped to run "Gulags" where millions of people were held against their will and many perished. I did bad things, I rather not go into detail on. But I too, tore apart families, mistreated and killed people. My next life wasn't any better. I was a soldier during the Vietnam war. I was involved with interrogations of POWs, which included torture and murder. I was an advisor and asked others to do the same, and the same was done to me by my government. I was following orders and beleived I was doing right for my country and my country's ideals. I have more blood on my hands. Reports show hundreds of thousands were captured, interrogated and tortured and even killed during that time. Every day I live with the fact that I've done these things and have nightmares almost every night. I too, wonder how can I be forgiven for these actions of mine?

 

[Shiftkitty]

I'm not sure if this relates or not, but one day when I was unloading some supplies off a truck, a woman came walking past with a small boy. The boy caught my attention, probably because he was so cute. As soon as our eyes locked he wrenched free from his mother's hand and walked right up to me with the saddest expression on his face. Something inside told me this boy had something important to say. He looked up at me and said "I'm sorry." I smiled and responded "It's okay. I got over it." His face then suddenly broke out into the sunniest smile I have ever seen! I don't know what he was apologizing for, but he felt it important enough to remember even if I had forgotten.


If you have PL guilt carrying over, use it to be a good person today. You can't do anything for the people you have hurt before, but the more souls you help today the greater your chances of meeting one of them in the course of your reformation. You can't do much about where you've been, but you can do something about where you're going!

 

[Rijeka7]

I'm sorry you are having those feelings. But the others are right, it shows that you have indeed changed and become better through your lifetimes since that happened. If you come to remember more and are able to see memories from what you did, it will only be part of the healing process. Actually I think it's quite big/humble of you to be able to admit you did bad things at all; I know many people who believe they have never done anything wrong in any past life.


I don't know to what extent you did bad things, but if it makes you feel better, I too, am aspire to be a good person today, but I was quite awful in Mongolian Rus. I have memories of killing kids, even. Something I'd obviously never do now. So, while our past lives may shape who we've become in some ways, my opinion is that they only have a positive effect. Best wishes on your continued journey.

 

[LightWalker]

I had a previous life wherein I was involved in the torturous and bloody death of two dozen men, women and children and I felt the burden of it until I relived it and released it...the question became, if God can forgive me why can I not forgive myself? I can guarantee you I do not know something God doesn't know about! The fact that you live your current life with the level of goodness you experience daily ought to provide some indication as to the lessons you've learned and the atonement you have achieved.

Thanks for clarifying that those are my beliefs I am trying to understand the beliefs of others, as well. Hopefully my question will make sense.


How can someone achieve atonement without having done anything? A friend of mine who had done something wrong to me once called me to apologize out of the blue a few months later and I asked why, and he told me that it was the Jewish holiday known as the Day of Atonement and part of his spiritual path was to atone for his wrongdoings of the previous year. It was a pretty minor thing, that I'd actually forgotten about, but in order to have atoned for it, he had to apologize.


Admittedly in the case of slavery or the Holocaust that is a lot of apologies, but should that not at least be a part of the process, apologizing or performing some type of helping service to those who were wronged or their family members or part of that same group in order to balance the energies?

 

[Owl]

Admittedly in the case of slavery or the Holocaust that is a lot of apologies, but should that not at least be a part of the process, apologizing or performing some type of helping service to those who were wronged or their family members or part of that same group in order to balance the energies?

I guess it's easier when it comes to this life that when it comes to past lives, and it doesn't only depend on the person asking for forgiveness but also on the people accepting it. In the case of the holocaust, that you mention, in 2007 I had created a yahoo group for reincarnated Nazis and reincarnated holocaust victims to talk together and solve out any past life issues that they might have with each other. Even though I got quite a few "Dead Nazis" in the group, willing to talk, we barely had reincarnated holocaust victims because they said that talking about it wouldn't solve anything and it would just perpetuate the circle of despair and the power issues of back then, that if reincarnated Nazis had really changed they should trace them and make a positive change into their current lives. Personally I think that is a bit too much, I don't feel guilty, but If I did I would gladly talk about it, but I wouldn't take a plane to another country to track down a random person and somehow make a change into their life, so even though the reincarnated Nazis would be willing to talk and maybe apologize, the reincarnated holocaust victims weren't able to accept those apologies. So it's not that easy.


As to the original thread, others have already said it by sharing their memories with you Hoosiermama, but don't worry too much about the past. They were other times, other circumstances, and things that nowadays are seen as wrong or bad maybe back then they weren't, who knows, maybe you even thought you were doing somehow the right thing. I have memories of working in Auschwitz as a doctor, I remember selections and some other things, and even though nowadays I know that the Holocaust was bad, back then out mindset was different and I thought that my work was for a greater good.

 

[Sariel]

They were other times, other circumstances, and things that nowadays are seen as wrong or bad maybe back then they weren't, who knows, maybe you even thought you were doing somehow the right thing. I have memories of working in Auschwitz as a doctor, I remember selections and some other things, and even though nowadays I know that the Holocaust was bad, back then out mindset was different and I thought that my work was for a greater good.

I think this could also be said of witch hunters, crusaders, and many others though out history. There isn't any special karma attached to having been or being a Nazi and I see no reason that you should offer a special apology or make things right from another lifetime.

 

[LightWalker]

They were other times, other circumstances, and things that nowadays are seen as wrong or bad maybe back then they weren't, who knows, maybe you even thought you were doing somehow the right thing. I have memories of working in Auschwitz as a doctor, I remember selections and some other things, and even though nowadays I know that the Holocaust was bad, back then out mindset was different and I thought that my work was for a greater good.

Seriously? You have just provided a rationalization for every evil act committed by humanity by saying that as long as you believed it was okay at the time it is not necessary to feel that you did something wrong.


Slavery was legal, so no harm no foul. The acts of the Nazis had the backing of laws or orders and were intended to improve the health of the people, so the Holocaust was perfectly fine.


If I'd been alive in Nazi Germany, because of my difference, some Nazi doctor would have euthanized me (or if I was very lucky they would have sterilized me to prevent me from breeding) and a lot of the people i know with disabilities. We would have been considered "life unworthy of life".


Which now leads me to question karmic debt. If you believe that there was no imbalance in the energies as a result of your actions as they were approved by the current belief system in place, does that mean there is no karmic debt?


If so, the Allies incurred karmic debt against the Nazis that they tried and convicted of war crimes and atrocities because they believed that what they did was right and therefore they should not have been imprisoned or hanged. Or did they, because they believed what they felt was right?


Is it just me, or is karma one very confusing concept?

 

[ChrisR]

Hi HoosierMama.


Personally I think it's all swings and roundabouts with reincarnation. It's all too easy to focus on just one life where you feel full of guilt for inflicting harm on another person. We talk about 'karma' and punishment, but how do you know that the people you inflicted harm on in a past life were not serving their own karma for something bad that THEY did (possibly to you) in a life previous to that one? Although I fully understand and sympathize with your feelings of guilt, you have to try and let go and leave the past in the past and focus your energy on the present and moving forward. You are a good person in this life, like you say, you love your family, you give to the needy, try to focus on those around you that you are helping now. I believe that ALL souls are fundamentally good beneath the flesh and bones. We can't expect in every life to be blameless and perfect, we all have done, and will do good and bad things, I believe it's a necessity in order to balance your spiritual path. Try to see the bigger picture instead of just one small piece of it

 

[Owl]

Seriously? You have just provided a rationalization for every evil act committed by humanity by saying that as long as you believed it was okay at the time it is not necessary to feel that you did something wrong.

Well, I personally don' t believe in the concepts of right or wrong, good or evil, I think they depend on time and on societies. What is right in one time and place is wrong in the other.


It' s somehow what it was being said in the Krishna story posted above, sometimes we have to do what we have to do, what we feel it' s right. If then the results prove to be less than desirable, well... it' s experience for next time.


Also, feelings don' t necessarily respond to logic and the rational mind, it's weird how it works.

Which now leads me to question karmic debt. If you believe that there was no imbalance in the energies as a result of your actions as they were approved by the current belief system in place, does that mean there is no karmic debt?

I don't know why but this concept of Karmic debt is being brought a lot lately. I don' t think there' s karmic debt, a lot of people have said that they wished I was suffering in my next 10 incarnations but so far I' m fine, living a regular life.

If so, the Allies incurred karmic debt against the Nazis that they tried and convicted of war crimes and atrocities because they believed that what they did was right and therefore they should not have been imprisoned or hanged. Or did they, because they believed what they felt was right?

Nobody incurred in karmic debt in my opinion. After the war the allies just wanted to satisfy their bloodlust against anything German, some sort of revenge for "starting the war", so everyone just got hanged.

 

[Nightrain]

Seriously? You have just provided a rationalization for every evil act committed by humanity by saying that as long as you believed it was okay at the time it is not necessary to feel that you did something wrong.

I interpreted Owl's point quite differently than you have. There is no rationalization going on here as far as I can tell. We have all done something in the past that we wrongly thought was the right thing at the time, but which we sincerely regret now. That is all in the past and the only thing we can do about it is to be more aware that such things could happen again. But to expect that we should play the victim in our next life is not constructive in any form or fashion. If anything it only perpetuates the cycle. There is no way that we can narrow down the true meaning of Karma, but we can reason that there is very little purpose in expecting retribution in the next life. It doesn't create balance, but promotes imbalance.

 

[Ignotus]

Seriously? You have just provided a rationalization for every evil act committed by humanity by saying that as long as you believed it was okay at the time it is not necessary to feel that you did something wrong.
Slavery was legal, so no harm no foul. The acts of the Nazis had the backing of laws or orders and were intended to improve the health of the people, so the Holocaust was perfectly fine.


If I'd been alive in Nazi Germany, because of my difference, some Nazi doctor would have euthanized me (or if I was very lucky they would have sterilized me to prevent me from breeding) and a lot of the people i know with disabilities. We would have been considered "life unworthy of life".


Which now leads me to question karmic debt. If you believe that there was no imbalance in the energies as a result of your actions as they were approved by the current belief system in place, does that mean there is no karmic debt?


If so, the Allies incurred karmic debt against the Nazis that they tried and convicted of war crimes and atrocities because they believed that what they did was right and therefore they should not have been imprisoned or hanged. Or did they, because they believed what they felt was right?


Is it just me, or is karma one very confusing concept?

I believe you are sadly mistaken. Are you stating that all Nazis were evil? If so, I would have to refute that.


Not all Nazis were evil, some did it because they were frightened. Good and evil, the concept is not black and white. Its mostly grey. Some, like me and Owl, did it because it was right, at that time.


The Holocaust, like Slavery, was also legal there during that time. I'm not saying it isn't wrong but why on earth are Nazis inexcusable then?


I had protected my leader's life back then, guarded it more than my own. Imagine that, I could have just done something back then, but I didn't. Because I didn't just regard him as my leader back then, but as a friend. Does that make me monster? Do I deserve eternal punishment? I'm curious on your views.


Karma, too is not a black and white concept. Yes, I felt guilty that I didn't do anything back then. But there's nothing I nor the Universe can do to change it, unless you happen to own a time machine.


As for the topic, there's nothing you can do to change anything, HoosierMama. The best you can do is to accept it, forgive yourself, though it isn't easy, and make sure this never happens again.


That is, my honest opinion.

 

[usetawuz]

Thanks for clarifying that those are my beliefs I am trying to understand the beliefs of others, as well. Hopefully my question will make sense.
How can someone achieve atonement without having done anything? A friend of mine who had done something wrong to me once called me to apologize out of the blue a few months later and I asked why, and he told me that it was the Jewish holiday known as the Day of Atonement and part of his spiritual path was to atone for his wrongdoings of the previous year. It was a pretty minor thing, that I'd actually forgotten about, but in order to have atoned for it, he had to apologize.


Admittedly in the case of slavery or the Holocaust that is a lot of apologies, but should that not at least be a part of the process, apologizing or performing some type of helping service to those who were wronged or their family members or part of that same group in order to balance the energies?

It is my belief that as a universal law, Karma is a default balancing element...it is one way to complete a balance of events and the impact those events have on people. It is not the only way, the law of Grace being an example, along with other methods of atonement...especially if one's actions affected large numbers. While an apology might be all that is needed (see Shiftkitty's experience above), actions benefiting others not affected by the karmic event may also shift the balance back towards the positive.


Another view of the holocaust can be seen with the thought that there are no victims in life...we pre-plan our experiences on earth, subject to free will. Those involved in the holocaust chose to play the perpetrators or the victims. Free will enabled the opportunity to avoid it at some point, or to go forward with their role in the "play". An interesting view of this line of thought is illustrated in Natalie Sudman's book "Application of Impossible Things" wherein she was blown up by a roadside bomb in Iraq, went to the other side and came back to describe the structure and process of our lives here and "over there". She had come into this life having planned to experience and survive that bomb blast...and she further stated she was not a victim...nor is anyone who experiences something that affects their lives in what we would determine to be a "negative fashion".


As intimated by Nightrain, the draconian view of a karma that provides "an eye for an eye" is something I simply cannot see as doing anything more than perpetuating that karmic cycle.

 

[Shield2]

I have carried that memory with me ever since, and it had the effect of paralyzing my spirit for quite a while—that is, until I realized that I was no good to anyone as long as I continued to escape reality by every means possible. I HAD to forgive myself! Not only for being a part of something so heinous, but also for disloyalty to my fellow troops.

Thank you , Nightrain, for this post. Cried a little as I read it. This touched some core theme in my own life. Could have written these words myself except I haven´t been a soldier in this life. But in others, certainly. Paralyzed, yeah, a lot of times;


if I use my full power it will hurt or kill or deceive people.


True forgiveness is central in human life. Of others and ourselves. Of ourselves through our forgiving others. In the bible Jesus says about his own murderers: Forgive them for they know not what they do. And, I think, this is meant not as a moral dogma but rather as an expression of a realization, of a greater reality.


Deep ignorance darkens our minds, fear and hatred result. When the dark goes there will be no reason, no driving force for fear, hatred or revenge. And I think, like ustewaz said, what you might call Grace is a way there. Received in laying down arms, opening to a greater identification than with our small individual ego selves.


The thing, I tell myself, is to see there is an actual, real basis for a truly forgiving mindset. Seen that way it´s not the superficial goody two-shoes boy-scout charade, it sometimes seems, but rather a solution to a deep existential dilemma. As one spontaneous expression of what we really are.


And, from a past life viewpoint, destructive "evil" lives is probably nothing "special" but something most of us have been through at one time or another- human life in the universe(s?) has been long and both light and dark- and as such something we all have or will have to deal with some time.


I actually came looking here today for some help to a frustrating situation going on right now: how to deal with nazis and the like progressing here in Europe these days, without myself getting sucked into that dark place of fear and hatred towards them. Projecting my own guilt from the past onto them to no useful end. And this thread helped along that way I think. Thanks.

 

[argonne1918]

Another view of the holocaust can be seen with the thought that there are no victims in life...we pre-plan our experiences on earth, subject to free will. Those involved in the holocaust chose to play the perpetrators or the victims. Free will enabled the opportunity to avoid it at some point, or to go forward with their role in the "play". An interesting view of this line of thought is illustrated in Natalie Sudman's book "Application of Impossible Things" wherein she was blown up by a roadside bomb in Iraq, went to the other side and came back to describe the structure and process of our lives here and "over there". She had come into this life having planned to experience and survive that bomb blast...and she further stated she was not a victim...nor is anyone who experiences something that affects their lives in what we would determine to be a "negative fashion".

Many years ago I read a book about reincarnation and past life regression. The author said they had regressed several people who died in the holocaust. He then asked them to go back to a previous life to see if there was a reason for them to die in the holocaust. At least one found themselves as a Christian "Crusader" in the Middle Ages. While in the Middle East "Holy Land" they slaughtered hundreds or thousands of men, women, and children "in God's name".

 

[Lady2]

HoosierMama - As others have said, you must find a way to forgive yourself. You remembered what you did, so that you could know what it is you need to forgive your self of. Guilt is a terrible thing to carry around with you, don't let it follow you for hundreds of years. You can't change what you did in the past, but you can change what you do in the present and future. And that is how you will do those people you did wrong justice. For the people you help in this life, may well be those people reincarnated, giving you the chance to right old wrongs.