karma; destiny; & memory

[deborah]

I am curious what people think about karma as memory. We talk a lot about karma here - and "memories" but memories of PL events and people. When someone says they "hate" something or someone, or they are fixated on someone or someplace should'nt this too be seen as a key starting point for unconscious memories? To me Karma is then --more about our internal state of being - (thoughts, feelings, emotions) which manifests into reality.

This Quote is from the EdgarCayce.org website.

One frequently misunderstood concept regarding reincarnation has to do with karma. From the standpoint of the Cayce material, karma is not destiny; it is only memory. These memories are generally unconscious and influence our abilities, our faults, even our relationships with others, but with free will we can meet this memory as a positive or a negative experience.

Karma provides us with the potential to learn a lesson we need in order to grow at a soul level, and free will determines whether or not we choose to learn it at this time. The choices we make determine the next set of potential experiences we encounter.

The quote above is an excerpt from a book titled; Edgar Cayce on the Akashic Records by Kevin J. Todeschi

In her book Everyday Karma - Carmen Harra, Ph.D. says the following.

I like to think of karma as memory. Every thought and action, everything you do, creates memory, like data in a computer. This data or memory is either positive or negative. All of the negative memory will resurface in your life again and again, and the only way to move forward is to resolve it. Your life is a process of resolving karmic issues and in doing so you grow and move on.

She goes on to say that --

Many times, I think in the West particularly, people confuse karma with fate or destiny. Karma is not fate or destiny; it is cumulative memory

Cumulative memory - what an interesting perspective on who and what - we are..... Does anyone have thoughts, rebuttals, ideas about this?

 

[Nightrain]

Great topic, Deborah! And, one that very suddenly brought up a question as to how I, and maybe others, view Karma. My favorite synonym for Karma has long been the word "justice", more than memory. I'm guessing that the memory part for me might be on another level. But on the level of present time awareness, Karma doesn't mean memory; but, rather, justice. If I abuse it now, I lose it in the next. If I'm victimized in this life, Karma will seek revenge in the next. Clearly, I have some things to learn about it.


In the comedy series, "My Name is Earl", the character played by Jason Lee often refers to Karma as a female guide, who pulls him out of trouble at the last minute. His list of reparations is a way of giving back something to Ms. Karma. Of course, this makes good comedy, but it does draw from a bit of reality. Many people unconsciously behave toward Karma in this way, because, I think, it is another way of asking for help from Christ, and give back by doing good in his name.


Few of us, I think, regard Karma as ourselves, let alone our memories. To regard it in this manner places more responsibility upon ourselves, rather than on some kind of "savior". It is, therefore, passive, like a tool in our hands; which can make us view ourselves objectively and enables us to accept responsibility for our own actions.


In wonder, therefore; whether Karma deserves a great deal more examination on our part. It can be scairy for some of us, because we we still view it as a kind of noun unto itself, and separate from us. Could this be what makes Karma seen so fearsome to many people? How do you define Karma?


-Nightrain

 

[alaskanlaughter]

I really appreciate the discussion of this topic. I like to hear different viewpoints. Right now I feel that karma is very personal to one's soul and that you "reap what you sow."


However I'm thinking over the whole perspective of positive and negative. What I do, for example, to someone that's meant to be positive (pausing to help an elderly person) may in fact come across to that person as something negative (the elderly person may be offended by the offer of help). So then what kind of karma have I created for myself? I don't have the answers. It's food for thought though.

 

[Eevee]

There is a saying that 'people are drawn to what they are familiar with' - often even bad things, relations or behavior. Perhaps in that way Karma is Memory. People that experience 'good karma' might remember how to act or choose positively ; people who experience 'bad karma' might be drawn to (the memory of) the same negative choices - life after life - until they realize how to change their choises or thoughts in a positive way, and act according to it.


Eevee

 

[wednesday]

Thanks Evee, I never thought of it that way. That does make a lot of sense.

 

[Nightrain]

(pausing to help an elderly person) may in fact come across to that person as something negative (the elderly person may be offended by the offer of help). So then what kind of karma have I created for myself? I don't have the answers. It's food for thought though.

Hi AlaskanLaughter,


The point you brought up about doing something for someone who is offended by it; is something that I've been struggling with for nearly my entire life. Let's take it one step further. The old lady sticks up a convenience store as a direct result of what you did for her. I know, it's a stretch. But, when you think about it, your first scenario is very much like my second one, because it asks the basic question about what is right and what is wrong. It's the basic, but most important morality question.


There is an existential quality about it which has to do with the long range effects of what we do. Y'know -- the old analogy of the butterfly's fluttering in Africa leading to the eventual deadly hurricane. Anyone in the judgement or life and death fields would know exactly what I'm talking about. If I save someone from death, and their descendant ends up being a serial killer. Would it be right or wrong?


I've read that it is the intention that we need to judge ourselves by. If the old lady you helped doesn't appreciate what you've done, well...too bad! Your Karma is good and on record, and the results become moot issues. But, let's go back to the serial killer. What if their mind is so mixed up, that they believe they were doing the right thing, Is that bad Karma? Their intentions were good. In our present world, the serial killer's actions are, obviously, wrong. But, according to Karma, their actions are laudable, because they were well-intentioned. I know -- it's another stretch. But, isn't that still good Karma?


How about the person, who's intentions are bad; but, by a strange twist of fate, their actions have good and wonderful results. Is that bad Karma? Here's another one; if someone made it possible for you to go into the past, but only as recent as 1870, would it be right to kill Hitler's parents, so that he couldn't be born? According to Karma, your intentions would be taken into account on the positive side, and it would be good. But, could you really carry it out?


What if Karma isn't an issue of good vs. bad? What if Karma is merely the process of going through your life review and feeling all the angst, pain, joy and happiness of everyone affected by your actions, whether good or bad? Does Karma work that way?


OK, I'll end this torture.


-Nightrain

 

[alaskanlaughter]

I really like your "food for thought"!

 

[Skarphedinn]

Well, Nightrain, I find these questions quite provocative, but in the most constructive way, that makes one think the questions over more thoroughly. Let's start with the situation, where someone goes back through time and kills Hitler's parents in the 1870's, intending to save the lives of millions. Good or bad? To evade the originally proposed choices, I'd rather say, it is the wrong way of thinking. Our human rationality says, that it is a good business to kill one to save millions, ergo this is a moral choice, but the Divine (or transcendent) rationality has another way. First of all, Hitler's parents are no way responsible for the misdeeds their well-beloved son performed decades later. Then, Hitler is not responsible for all those misdeeds that were performed under his reign - it would assume, that all the other, who also did bad things - even if they were done in his name - are not responsible. And not to forget the command of the Zeitgeist: even if we kill Hitler or his parents, there would have been someone so charismatic to take the position of the Führers, and do the very same things. Or even worse. And the fourth reason worth thinking over is that all doing and suffering of those misdeeds were part of the drama, and this roots in the collective destiny of the participants. So if we could change things in the past, we would face these what ifs, and there is no way to find our way using our everiday mind. Wee do need transcendent guidance, and this is not rational, but rather intuitive. Like Saint Catherine to Joan of Arc or the Daimon to Socrates, but I believe, that such a trancendent help is available for all of us. Like you wrote in another post of yours, Arjuna had to make a wise decision, and that was fighting, instead of thinking of saving the lives of those in the enemy camp, and worrying about the consequences. Once the wise decision is made, the future takes care of itself.


Of course this is just my opinion based on my beliefs and life experience, no way the ultimate truth.


Skarphedinn

 

[deborah]

Any new thoughts about Carmen's reflection:

....think in the West particularly, people confuse karma with fate or destiny. Karma is not fate or destiny; it is cumulative memory.

Or Cayce's points?

From the standpoint of the Cayce material, karma is not destiny; it is only memory.

 

[usetawuz]

Interesting idea...and while I have read those books I'll have to re-read them.


I had not thought of karma as memory, but it makes sense to me. I do not subscribe to "karma being a b!tch", it isn't retributional to me. Rather it is a balance of experiences available through lifetimes in an effort to see both sides of an experiential coin. It is, to me effectively a default balancing mechanism...and it would, by necessity, require a sense of memory of some sort to ensure each end of an act is balanced against the other over, across and through lifetimes.


To explain, one acts badly toward someone which results in pain and anguish for the other party...the default position is that at some point the bad actor will either become the victim of that same act, or one like it ensuring a like experience. Or, turn off the default provision of karma and use another method...the law of grace wherein the bad actor realizes the full consequences of his act, either consciously or at a soul level, and comes to understand the full gamut of effects that his act held. The "memory" keeps track of the balance required in the event an alternative is not selected.


I have stated before that my deep belief is that our lives as humans are based in feeling and the truths feelings hold. Some of those feelings are retribution, jealousy and hate and any number of other human foibles and it is natural to seek those things for perceived wrongs done to us or our loved ones. From the soul level, those things are not part of the equation, as in spirit we live through love and compassion and the soul sees karma as a tool to balance, as part of the human contract we enact while incarnate...not out of retribution, but to potentially streamline the experiential process. However it is not the only one...i.e. law of grace.


So back to the topic...it makes sense to me that karma could be memory, and I think I could come to accept that with a little more thought. After all, it is only a small extention from belief in the Akashic records (memory of everything we have ever thought, felt, said or done) to adding in a direct default to karma as the description of that memory at work.


I think I like that...

 

[Kristopher]

I think its a good theory. I would say that we live a life that involves us experiencing exactly what we had done wrong in the previous life first, considering that the karmatic experiences wasnt plesant, we would always carry that strong memory from life to life. So i would say that our karma turns into a memory that may be triggered by something in the current life.


I have always wondered, for example, if our karma was to be murdered, would the person who murdered us volunter? I mean, surly we only pay for our karma by the things we do that are related to our free will, so how could someone be expected to pay the karma price if it was a planned event? Hmmm

 

[Truthseeker]

I do not subscribe to "karma being a b!tch", it isn't retributional to me. Rather it is a balance of experiences available through lifetimes in an effort to see both sides of an experiential coin. It is, to me effectively a default balancing mechanism...and it would, by necessity, require a sense of memory of some sort to ensure each end of an act is balanced against the other over, across and through lifetimes.

I agree completely.


I do not believe in cosmic judgement and punishment. I believe that our need for what we see as vengence and justice in the human world, we project those same qualities on to God. We sleep better at night believing that whoever has disgusted us or made us angry is "going to get what's coming to them" from God when they die.


The problem with what we call "evil" is all a matter of perspective. The United States calls radical Muslims evil, yet radical Muslims call the United States "The Great Satan." Both sides call the other evil, and both sides feel justified in their beliefs.


What some call indecent others call self expression. What some call stealing others call survival. What some call murder others call justice. Who decides what is evil? It's all a matter of perspective. I'm not saying there should no laws in society. All I'm saying is that I feel that the spirit world operates on a higher level than vendettas and human emotions.


I believe that in the spirit world love is all there is. Anger and hated are products of the human condition. Once we leave the physical world and return to love, we then clearly see those times in our lives when we failed to love. We participate in what some call karma, not as a means of punishment, but as an expression of love for those we failed to love in the previous life.


Anyway, those are just my thoughts. : angel

 

[rjmarzano]

karma; destiny; & memory


If the theory is true that people can reincarnate into any time period past or future or even live the same life over again it's not as simple as karma is pay back for something that was done in a 'past life'.


This theory implies that all possible futures and destinies exist simultaneously.


We could do something today that could cause a reaction 10 minutes from now, 100 years from now, or thousands of years ago.


In that sense perhaps the only things that are truly really are the love or hate that exists between people, peoples' intentions for good or evil, etc..


I think this happened to me. I did something a few years back that almost caused me to be burned at the stake 500 years ago.


Saint Paul put a curse on all those who dared to distort Christ's words and write the false gospels such as the so called 'Gospel Of Thomas'. Perhaps Paul's terrible curse came true during that time we call 'The Inquisition'.


I heard an interesting sermon at Church a few years back around Easter time. The priest said that the story of Jesus Christ isn't about any particular historical period. It is the story of two opposing forces. The one force tried to destroy the other.


Those two opposing forces became personified in the lives of individuals. Pilate, Judas, and others were on the negative side. Edgar Cayce said some of the Sons Of Belial had reincarnated at that time to help crucify Christ.


In Da Vinci's Last Supper painting nobody is standing directly next to Christ. The crucifixion was something He had to experience more or less alone to allow people to express their desires for good or evil.


As the old wise man told Christ's parents when they took Him to be baptized:


"The thoughts of many hearts will be laid bare because of Him."


Christ is still being crucified today in countless ways.


I guess the day eventually comes in everyone's life when they have to answer a basic question:


Will you become a force for good or a force for evil in this physical world ?


Speaking of the great Edgar Cayce, this book is about his own journey of reincarnation:


The Lives of Edgar Cayce by W. H. Church (Aug 1995)


Cayce had some problems in two areas that cause issues for many people which are sexuality and a feeling of racial superiority. These areas caused bad karma for him.


Cayce told a guy that came to him for a reading that the guy was the reincarnation of the psychotic Roman emperor Nero. In the later experience during Cayce's time this guy had been in a car crash and he was paralyzed. He was completely dependent on Christians for everything.


This is just one of many, many examples where Edgar Cayce talked to people about very serious issues such as God and their past life experiences.


It's always a serious issue when an individual claims to be talking about spiritual truths. They better be right when they say it.


Many people believe Edgar Cayce was right.

 

[deborah]

Cumulative memory - what an interesting perspective on who and what - we are.....


Does anyone have thoughts, rebuttals, ideas about this?