Nuclear Dreams

[Elle C.]

On the Christian thing, I turned from it a long time ago. A preacher and his wife called me everything but my name; mostly whore of Babylon or Satan's daughter. I have been in church rarely since, never been baptized (and won't since I don't think I need to announce to the world I got wet) and am uncomfortable with churches in general. I have read the Bible several times and can quote with the best of them, and have studied Revelations (that preacher was my best friend's dad whose grandfather wrote 17 books on it...which I've read), and have signs increasingly telling me I need to convert...but free will is a pita.

One thing that bothers me is the important in the eyes of heaven. I think we all have roles to fulfill, and this weird dream makes me no more-or-less touched by grace than anyone else. People, of all walks of life, are called on to do things, God in whatever form He appears or whomever He sends, speaks to many everyday. Most just don't listen.

I don't know how rare this sort of thing is. It was always normal to me because it happened, and I suspect it is far more common but most don't realize it or can't accept it.

Saying all that, John the Baptist being zealous is a Biblical report thing. My experience with zealots, or those who are of a spiritual faith of the kind that feels the need to preach fire and brimstone are something at 6 I distrusted immensely and as I've gotten older, my experiences with that type is abhorrent (and I mean no offense to anyone of the type of religious person who is like this...I have a history with them and it is not good) and I avoid them like the plague as an adult. My husband is of the denomination I find most problematic, however, I was using John the Baptist as an example of why not someone else. I could easily have chosen any other figure.

As to the angel, I was around 25 and was with my then 18 month old son in a discount store. I went around a corner and came face to face with a very nice looking man. He shimmered, for a lack of better words, and what I saw underneath his skin in that split second was demonic. He was blocking my way, however was extremely pleasant and smiling (it did not hit his eyes) but followed me as I backed up and went around the aisle. At the end, between the middle of the store and the front aisle, and back aisle, another man was standing there. He had dirty dishwater blonde hair and the bluest eyes almost as if they were an electrical light but very cold and dead when he looked at me. The demon was behind me, this man in front and he took one look at me and said "Elle, take your son (by name) and go." However no where in that whole interaction did I feel kindness, warmth or even affection for me, quite the opposite. He disliked me, in an impersonal sort of way...the feeling was one of us seeing a spider we allow to live. Needed but not really something you want to be around. He didn't hate me, he just didn't have any feelings at all. The demon was the total opposite. Both terrified me, the angel even more so.

So I booked it out of there. Abandoned my cart, grabbed my son and left. I didn't look back, although I heard part of their exchange. Why am I sure this was an angel? Not only was I aware this was Michael, the demon called him by name as well. It is not an experience I want to ever have again.

 

[SeaAndSky]

On the Christian thing, I turned from it a long time ago. A preacher and his wife called me everything but my name; mostly whore of Babylon or Satan's daughter. I have been in church rarely since, never been baptized (and won't since I don't think I need to announce to the world I got wet) and am uncomfortable with churches in general. I have read the Bible several times and can quote with the best of them, and have studied Revelations (that preacher was my best friend's dad whose grandfather wrote 17 books on it...which I've read), and have signs increasingly telling me I need to convert...but free will is a pita.

There are a lot of churches and preachers out there. They are not all like that. Your bad experience with some is no excuse for not looking into others. The same is true about theologians and the books they write. There are many denominations and many views on the Book of Revelations. You might try spreading out your reading a bit more to include different view points and perspectives. Finally, I think (obviously) that you need to follow those signs. BTW—what does “free will is a pita” mean? I’ve never come across that expression before.

One thing that bothers me is the important in the eyes of heaven. I think we all have roles to fulfill, and this weird dream makes me no more-or-less touched by grace than anyone else. People, of all walks of life, are called on to do things, God in whatever form He appears or whomever He sends, speaks to many everyday. Most just don't listen.

Agreed. But very few have the type of open person-to-person communications and encounters you have experienced.

I don't know how rare this sort of thing is. . . I suspect it is far more common but most don't realize it or can't accept it.

Maybe. But if it was happening to a lot of people, we would hear about it more often.

Saying all that, John the Baptist being zealous is a Biblical report thing. My experience with . . . the kind that feels the need to preach fire and brimstone are something at 6 I distrusted immensely . . . My husband is of the denomination I find most problematic, however, I was using John the Baptist as an example of why not someone else. I could easily have chosen any other figure.

Your instincts may be correct, but you can always look into another denomination.

As to the angel, I was around 25 and was with my then 18 month old son in a discount store. I went around a corner and came face to face with a very nice looking man. . . . what I saw underneath his skin in that split second was demonic. . . . another man was standing there. He had . . . the bluest eyes almost as if they were an electrical light but very cold and dead when he looked at me. . . . he took one look at me and said "Elle, take your son (by name) and go." . . . He didn't hate me, he just didn't have any feelings at all. The demon was the total opposite. Both terrified me, the angel even more so.

Very, very interesting—and illuminating. It is, once again, not IMO usual to have such beings take an “open” and visible interest in folks at such a day-to-day level. And I, once again, have to conclude that you are more important in the scheme of things than you realize. Of course, this doesn’t necessarily mean that you (in yourself) are extraordinary. It is more likely that it is a role you are intended to play that has put you in such a position. In a game of chess, even a pawn can be used to check-mate the other side’s King if used correctly. Of course, the pawn is often a small part of a larger plan involving much more powerful pieces, but the principle remains. In terms of Michael’s attitude towards you, I think you can understand that better if you put yourself in his shoes. First, imagine someone in Europe during WWII, who knows that Hitler is shipping Jews off to be exterminated, and has witnessed the incredible atrocities committed by the Wehrmacht, but refuses to “take a side” and/or refuses to get on the “right” side. Second, imagine a being like Michael, a soldier angel, who is aware not only of Hitler, but of many, many more sick, despicable and evil things done across thousands of years, and sees before him not only an agent of the evil power that caused these things—someone he has been fighting for millennia--but a human person he is saving who refuses to openly commit to the side of good in this cosmic battle, the side that is also extending its protection to her in a very dangerous circumstance. Wouldn’t you expect a bit of “attitude” on Michael’s part? Third, remember that Michael (if the theologians are correct) is a spiritual being of a higher order who has never known the foibles and weaknesses of the flesh, but is himself totally resolute and committed. So, how would you expect such an “intense” being to respond to you in the circumstance described? He is not Joseph (or Jesus), and the contrast is instructive. We are fortunate to have a savior who is both God and Man, and not only understands but has compassion on our weaknesses.

So I booked it out of there. Abandoned my cart, grabbed my son and left. I didn't look back, although I heard part of their exchange. . . .

I would have done the same!

Cordially,
S&S

PS--Once again, just my opinions.
PPS--Michael, though a soldier of God, is not a being I would think it wise to "trifle" with. It is no coincidence that many Biblical accounts of encounters with angels begin with the angel telling the people being spoken to that they should "fear not . . ." This seems to assume that such encounters are likely to be scary (or at least disconcerting) to ordinary folks like us.

 

[Elle C.]

There are many denominations and many views on the Book of Revelations. You might try spreading out your reading a bit more to include different view points and perspectives. Finally, I think (obviously) that you need to follow those signs. BTW—what does “free will is a pita” mean? I’ve never come across that expression before.

Pain in the backside. On Revelations, yes there is a ton of interpretations, that 17 volume set was one version of it . I have my own. I also think you have an idea (that I probably gave you) that I am utterly disinterested in religion. I have been to many churches, of all types. When I had the dream, I was attending a Baptist church. My mother was Catholic, my Dad Lutheran and my family is Mormon. I grew up next to an Assemblies of God college, my best friend was a Pentecostal, my daughter goes to a Church of God and my son is a Methodist. I attended an Orthodox church for a while.

Maybe. But if it was happening to a lot of people, we would hear about it more often.

Before this conversation I have told 3 people in my life of the dream, and only one of the second. Let me ask you, would you talk about it? To whom? How do you even explain that? Now add in a belief this is somewhat common, it winds up being something you just accept. You're told there are dreams from God in the Bible. God communicates through visions and dreams. Daniel, Joseph...even Pilate's wife. The wise men, Pilate's wife were also not exactly Christians either. You learn about this is Sunday School. Very few of the dreams were to high ranking, important people. Joseph was a carpenter and outside of Coptic apocryphal Joseph the Carpenter, very little is mentioned of this man as he was of such lesser importance.

I was never told not to talk about it. But given the paragraph above...would you really think you were that important that you would make a Jesus on the tortilla moment out of it? Also please realize I was 6 years old. I was not given orders to do anything soon (or orders at all), as the children of Fatima were, I was given a reassurance destruction is not an end and asked to be prepared to take on a responsibility that was not of my own making when I became a crone.

I am simply one of these people that winds up being a refuge for wayward and unwanted. It is why I have my donkey that no one wanted and a mule no one can get near even though I am scared of equines and never have been around one in my life (my husband has so he is more aware of the care then I am, although I have books I've read). It is why I own black cats, dance with a severely intellectually disabled adult every time he sees me and have no family at my Thanksgiving table, but it is always full. It is a personalty trait that was no more a virtue at 6 then it is at 48. Being asked was not a holy directive, and like a personality trait, is not a big deal. Does that make sense?

Very, very interesting—and illuminating. It is, once again, not IMO usual to have such beings take an “open” and visible interest in folks at such a day-to-day level. And I, once again, have to conclude that you are more important in the scheme of things than you realize. .

Yep. I am to feed and house the unwanted, unloved and broken of the most vulnerable among us, which is what I was asked to be available to do. Not fix them, not coddle them but simply be somewhere safe to be. Something for years I believed most people would do. I don't need a directive from God to do the right thing here, but the dream was a lot of "Hey, look at this cool thing..." Joseph was not terribly serious, outside of the initial fear of seeing destruction, it was a lot of this is a good hobby. Look how fun! It inflamed my interest in things like historical cooking, living off grid, canning...things my city mom was not too keen to look at much less do. He instilled a sense of wonder at learning skills disguised as hobbies...that was probably the most divine intervention of them all. I learned there was more than my meager 6 year old knowledge had through Little House on the Prairie and I could do these things for myself for real. (Since my late teenage years I have done camping, living history or living off grid for fun.)

In terms of Michael’s attitude towards you, I think you can understand that better if you put yourself in his shoes.

Never thought of it that way, but it was not about me at all. I felt like I was in the middle of something and was in the wrong place at the wrong time. And much as I knew I was face to face with Michael, I was also aware of who the demon was. It was something between them...I was in the way.

As to the fear not, lol, it didn't matter if I was scared or not. I don't think I can impress how inconsequential I was to the whole thing. Even the demon was amused I popped in, and a bit surprised I showed up for a moment

 

[SeaAndSky]

On Revelations, yes there is a ton of interpretations, that 17 volume set was one version of it . I have my own. I also think you have an idea (that I probably gave you) that I am utterly disinterested in religion. I have been to many churches, of all types.

Hmm. Have you looked into the Quakers (or more formally, the "Society of Friends")? They are an interesting combination of opposites: In terms of a church (or "Meeting House") service, historically they observe no sacraments in any formal sense, but simply met and engaged in an hour of quiet meditation in which those who felt touched by the Spirit could rise and convey their thoughts or inspiration to the others. Women as well as men engaged in ministry. This was and still is coupled with a very high level of outside activism in the social sphere. Historically, they have an admirable record across the centuries since their founding of anti-slavery work, improving conditions for those in prison or asylums, helping the poor, women's suffrage, etc. The combination of pacifism, extreme simplicity of worship (and in years past in dress and life), with extreme activism in the social sphere is unusual, representing a very unique union of opposites IMO.

However, like many denominations over the years the Quakers have had their schisms. At present, it seems to me that the bulk of Quaker groups have gone the way of most old-line Protestant denominations into extreme liberalism (politically as well as religiously). Devotionally, it does not appear unusual to have atheist, Muslim, etc. Quakers in the more liberal groupings. So, a bit like Unitarians, but with a Quietist service. There are a few more old-timey groupings around as well as some who have become more typically protestant in their form of worship. Personally, I would be very tempted to join one of the more traditional Quaker groups if there were any in my area. I have a high opinion of the original forms of Quakerism, and much of what remained in the U.S. through the 1800s. As to the newer iterations--Meh .

Cordially,
S&S

PS--I hope to get to some of your other points later. But, in the interim, anything you can tell me about your personal interpretation of Revelations would be of great interest to me.
PPS--All of the foregoing is, as always, just my opinion .

 

[SeaAndSky]

Before this conversation I have told 3 people in my life of the dream, and only one of the second. Let me ask you, would you talk about it? To whom? How do you even explain that?

Your reticence is understandable.

Now add in a belief this is somewhat common, it winds up being something you just accept.

I don't dispute your reasons for not mentioning these things, just the idea that the types of contacts you have had are "somewhat common". I have lived in a very a Christian milieu for most of my soon to be 70 years. In various sectors I have experienced, such as Pentecostal and Charismatic, accounts of contact with demons or angels are fairly common, and seem to be openly shared. I've also found quite a lot of that type of thing in Catholic accounts. But even in these contexts I think that direct encounters with Michael and Joseph rather than a more standard guardian angel of some type is rare. I think you mistake my stance. Many Christians seem to have significant dreams (including me), and a fair number seem to have experience of angelic or demonic contact at some point in their lives, but very few seem to have encounters with notables of the type you experience. Does this make you special? IMO, at least, it makes you a rarity, and a rarity is by definition special (even if it is specially bad or negative).

You're told there are dreams from God in the Bible. God communicates through visions and dreams. Daniel, Joseph...even Pilate's wife. The wise men, Pilate's wife were also not exactly Christians either. . . . Very few of the dreams were to high ranking, important people. . . .

Agreed 100% but important in the eyes of God and important in the eyes of the World are two different things.

. . . I was given a reassurance destruction is not an end and asked to be prepared to take on a responsibility that was not of my own making when I became a crone.

That is encouraging, though you definitely don't seem like a "crone" at my advanced age. So, hopefully we have 30-50 years ahead of us before the "axe falls".

I am simply one of these people that winds up being a refuge for wayward and unwanted. . . . It is a personalty trait that was no more a virtue at 6 then it is at 48. Being asked was not a holy directive, and like a personality trait, is not a big deal. Does that make sense?

All of the things you have mentioned in the foregoing paragraph are rarities. Your ability to see them as being rather ordinary is also a rarity. I agree with your propensity to downplay such things. It is what we should do. I am just reporting what I perceive.

Yep. I am to feed and house the unwanted, unloved and broken of the most vulnerable among us, which is what I was asked to be available to do. Not fix them, not coddle them but simply be somewhere safe to be. Something for years I believed most people would do. I don't need a directive from God to do the right thing here, but the dream was a lot of "Hey, look at this cool thing..." Joseph was not terribly serious, outside of the initial fear of seeing destruction, it was a lot of this is a good hobby. Look how fun! It inflamed my interest in things like historical cooking, living off grid, canning...things my city mom was not too keen to look at much less do. He instilled a sense of wonder at learning skills disguised as hobbies...that was probably the most divine intervention of them all. I learned there was more than my meager 6 year old knowledge had through Little House on the Prairie and I could do these things for myself for real. (Since my late teenage years I have done camping, living history or living off grid for fun.)

Well done, and far more than most, including me.

Never thought of it that way, but it was not about me at all. I felt like I was in the middle of something and was in the wrong place at the wrong time. And much as I knew I was face to face with Michael, I was also aware of who the demon was. It was something between them...I was in the way.

This sounds like the classic good-guy confronts evil gun-fighter on a dusty Western street scenario (with a local citizen caught in the middle ). And, absent the special mission from Joseph, I might be more inclined to accept the idea that you were just in the wrong place at the wrong time. However, this is just not something that I think can be ignored . . . .

As to the fear not, lol, it didn't matter if I was scared or not. I don't think I can impress how inconsequential I was to the whole thing. Even the demon was amused I popped in, and a bit surprised I showed up for a moment

I'll think about it, but I'm definitely not sold on the idea. Your perceptions may have, after all, been a bit skewed in a scenario so completely out of the ordinary. Plus, you tend to default to a self-deprecating position as a matter of course. Surprise and amusement on the part of a demonic being could, after all, be caused by other things than you being "inconsequential".

Cordially,
S&S

PS--Only my opinions, etc.

 

[Elle C.]

On Revelation, I think to understand it, one must read the Bible and understand the prophesies it states in Old and New Testaments as well as understand history at the time before Christ and after His death. At the time, it was the problems with Rome, but we know from history we have Rome, Babylon, Edom...even the West in modern day. This is a human cycle. Rome was John's time. We all turn into Babylon at some point, and through faith, those that maintain it will survive.

The 4 horseman...the first in Greek meant Conquest. What is Revelation but a conquest of God. Conquest in old Greek means to convert, to preach. The first horseman, therefore, is the WARNING to come to God. Repent. Time is running out for Babylon to fall. It is a call to peace, to stop fighting because War is coming. War causes Famine, then all combines to create Death. But every time a major power of the world falls, humanity is stricken with hardship many do not survive. This is a symbolic cycle of the end of a reign.

It is a Biblical retelling of the Yuga Cycles. Everything in our world is a cycle. We are born, we age, we die. People, trees, crops...we all have a cycle. So does civilizations. HOW you manage this is guidance within Revelations, or the Yugas.

Revelation is no more, no less a description of that cycle and the hope that we remain in Grace even in the worst of times and to lose that faith is to perish, for how can you live through an absolute destruction of the world as we know it without faith this has a greater meaning? Man plans, God laughs. We need to quit worshiping the wrong things; money moral decline, evil intents...all these things lead to the fall f every civilization. Through faith and teaching in grace, morality...GOOD things, we remain. They argue this is historical and has no meaning, or this is the things we see happening, both are right because this is the cycle of the stupidity of Mankind.

We see the seals being broken today because this is part of the cycle. The Kali Yuga, Revelation...they all speak of the same thing. The world sucks and we have lost our way. The seals are the cycles of returning to the right path of faith, moral regeneration, grace, charity. Both of them end with a Golden age.

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi All,

Apropos the topic, I just saw this article about a massive solar flare 14K years ago that was at least 10 times stronger than the Carrington Event interesting:

MSN

I am wondering how such an event--which IMO would probably burn-out the electronic and electrical networks and equipment on which modern civilization relies--might relate to the various dreams and images on this thread, including darkness, strange glows and flashes, etc.

Cordially,
S&S

PS--I am not sure, but the level of devastation might also destroy all or most of our forms of transportation, which rely on electronics for operation. So, possibly a total catastrophe, with everything going dark in terms of potable water flowing, artificial lighting, communications, etc. Mass starvation would seem to be a distinct possibility, with few surviving in isolated self-sufficient locations. However, I think hardened silos and nuclear subs would survive. It makes me wonder whether mutual suspicion or ambition following such an event might lead to a nuclear exchange, only making things worse.
PPS--Here's another article that just hit my eye, indicating that we're heading into the part of the Sun's 11 year cycle where we might get massive solar flares. Well, that's just peachy . . . .

MSN

 

[SeaAndSky]

More on the solar flare event that took place around 14,000 years ago (henceforth referred to as the "Super Carrington" event), this time from the Washington Post:

MSN

Interestingly, one of the factors of the Carrington event was light in the sky so bright that many thought that dawn had come. Quoting the above article:

The night sky lit up so bright that some people thought it was morning. Gold miners in the Rocky Mountains woke up at 1 a.m. to make breakfast and start their day. Birds began singing as if the sun had already risen. Telegraph systems worldwide went offline, and no one could send a message.

Now can anyone imagine how bright something 10 times brighter would be? I am wondering if the flash described in some of the prior posts above might relate to such a future Super Carrington event. Perhaps the red glow in the sky described in one post might also relate to such an event (maybe as an afterglow effect).

All sobering thoughts.

S&S