PL dealing with early punk rock music scene

[deborah]

HI apop4523,


Please be careful not to fall into the trap of acceptance WITHOUT critical examination.

I know you've seen my first thread about confirming my most recent past life, so it will be no surprise to you when I say I was Kurt Cobain.~apop4523

As I stated in the thread the trap of acceptance without critical examination:

I am always questioning the possibilities and yet I am careful not to fall into the trap of acceptance without critical examination. It isn't an easy task and requires not only personal reflection but a lot of research.
Most people were NOT famous in a past life. Documentation of the common folk in history tends to be generalized, not always specific and even non-existent. This can be a disappointment when trying to locate a past life persona. Not everyone was famous or important, most of us fall into the category of the masses.

You might want to also read the thread Recollections that effect a whole society.


Not to mention the debate about - Why do so many claim to be famous.


As you can see, making such a claim - without substantial backup; documentation and verification is just that ---doubtful.


Have you read any good books about past lives?

 

[apop4523]

Okie Dokie. It seems very real to me is all.

 

[Nightrain]

Outstanding apop!


I personally understand how you probably feel. I've been through it all, myself. A lot of things will seem incredibly real with the coming years; and if I'm reading you correctly, you are at the age when we are stumbling around trying to find out who we are and where we're from. I'm willing to accept how you relate to Mr. Cobain. But, as Deborah said, get your validity, documentation, proof before you advertise.


I'm thinking that you may understand our own reasons for pursuing "Past Lives". For most of us, the desire is strong to prove that there is life after life, because we need that verification. And, when we read what others post on this Forum, we are adding everything together to form a pattern of proof. We even get into Quantum Physics, occasionally.


Most of us also get a real charge out of helping each other understand the confusion of memories that didn't happen in this lifetime. But, only we can know what we have individually experienced. If you do your homework, you can post things that help other people too.


Stay with it. Learn as much as you can. You'll grow in ways you never thought possible. If you maintain your present identity, you won't end up wasting your time, which can be very frustrating for you. Many of us don't share our beliefs with anyone else beyond this Forum. Doing so would be like putting a permanent tattoo on our foreheads, and we would lose the freedom of learning at our own pace. Think that way, and you'll be in good company.


Thanks for taking all of this the right way. It's a great beginning for you, and the rewards are priceless.


-Nightrian

 

[Sunniva]

Overseas,


I did get a bit of goosebumps reading about Ian Curtis. I've never heard his name before and I couldn't name any song that Joy Division have made - until recently when one of my favourite artists made a cover of 'Love will tear us apart' and it made me cry quite unexpectedly.


There are some things about Ian Curtis that are uncanningly close to what I remember. However, I don't think I was him since there are things that do not fit. The names of his parents, the way he died, etc. I don't think I had children in that life either.


However, it is possible that I could have been at the gig in Birmingham and that the news of his death was devastating and brought me closer to my death. I know I was depressive, most likely drugged, and perhaps when in such a state of mind the thought of dying young was appealing?


This is all speculation of course, but definitely interesting. I think I will try to listen to some Joy Division when I get some time and see if anything pops up

 

[Overseas]

Sunniva,


'Love will tear us apart' is in fact quite moving in itself, so the emotions you had can come from the piece but also from memories or both.


Joy Division were getting huge at the time of Ian's death. He was a brilliant writer. I would know if you were him but you're not. I do believe you have known who he was at that time because in the music scene he was a rising star. You had a similar working-class background and similar lives.


They were one of the best bands ever :thumbsup: many people would categorize their music as depressing but if you dig deeper you see the beauty and uniqueness.


I read the books about him and thought about his situation. In fact he had a lot of humor but he was torn apart on several points. If you want to see a portrayal of the band and Ian (god bless his soul) then you should watch the movie 'Control'.


'Love will tear us apart' has been covered many times, but from which artist you heard the song, if I may ask?

 

[Sunniva]

Hi Overseas,

I would know if you were him but you're not.

I'm curious: how can you be so certain?


The cover version was by Nerina Pallot - unfortunately the versions that are uploaded on youtube are not as good as the version I heard. You're right that I could have just been swept away by the performance itself, that was my own initiate reaction. It was only when you mentioned Joy Division in the post above that a possible past life connection was brought up

 

[Overseas]

Sunniva,


never heard of Nerina Pallot, I'll check out what she has made of it


Just my intuition - one can never be too sure - but I think I would recognise this dark romantic soul or at least can tell when it's not.


He was very much orientated at heaven. If the picture you use is you, which I presume it is (one can never be too sure:laugh you sure don't have the heavenly look.


I think I would recognise his writings also.


The death of Ian Curtis certainly was a shock to those in the music scene. If you were frequenting gigs at that time, you must've come from Mars not knowing who he was. This guy was very very different and he made a difference too. But in his music, not in the way he died. But I believe it did do no good to some. Have read about some fan suicides. To die young was the ultimate longing of the romantic poet in his era. Maybe for some few it still is. But then they never heard about reincarnation.


Checking out on Nerina. Yeah she goes for the raw deal and that's when this song is at its best imho. Always touching.

 

[Sunniva]

I know I wasn't him - I've had many rather detailed memories of that life and from what I could read about him, many of the things didn't add up. Like the names of my parents, girlfriend, the fact that I had a brother.


I have a strong feeling of being a waste of life that time around. I have no memories of school or doing anything constructive with myself. In most of my memories I just hang around doing nothing. I had no great thoughts of myself, no will to live really. I think I was depressive by nature and the drugs probably only made it worse.

 

[Truthseeker]

Just my intuition - one can never be too sure - but I think I would recognise this dark romantic soul or at least can tell when it's not.
He was very much orientated at heaven. If the picture you use is you, which I presume it is (one can never be too sure:laugh you sure don't have the heavenly look.


I think I would recognise his writings also.

It is possible that he could have adopted an entirely different personna this time around. For the sake of growth and new experiences, he could have gone in an entirely different direction.

 

[Overseas]

It is possible that he could have adopted an entirely different personna this time around. For the sake of growth and new experiences, he could have gone in an entirely different direction.

That could be Truthseeker, but I believe there's always that spark there, some few would recognise. Wouldn't they?

 

[Overseas]

I have a strong feeling of being a waste of life that time around. I have no memories of school or doing anything constructive with myself. In most of my memories I just hang around doing nothing. I had no great thoughts of myself, no will to live really. I think I was depressive by nature and the drugs probably only made it worse.

How can you connect this PL to your famous and other PL's Sunniva? Do you think these aspects were slumbering also then? After all you is you... (answered my own question here somewhat myself ) ) and fame or time prints do only point out some of the characteristics of the person, not all I guess. But please do comment :laugh:

 

[Sunniva]

I think that being an introvert is a trait I carry from life to life. In several lives I've struggled with feeling inadequate and depression in various degrees, but I think that my past life as Jamie was the only one where those emotions were so strong and so dark that they eventually killed me.


I'm thinking that possibly the lesson in that life was for me to learn to balance the light and the dark side within me. In this life I do struggle with mild depression from time to time, but remembering my life as Jamie helps me deal with it. I know what can happen if you let the 'darkness' rule your mind and I (i.e. my soul) have learnt not to walk down that path again.

 

[Truthseeker]

I think there are elements of our true self in every lifetime we live, but they may manifest themselves in different ways. The body that we are living in my also be more prone to bringing out parts of us. We may choose a body that, because of the genetic tendencies or brain chemistry, is more prone to depressive behavior (for example). It may be harder for that body to resist those dark feelings inside. We also cannot underestimate the effect of current life conditions either. The environment we live in can have a signifcant impact on our self-perception and the paths we choose.

 

[Overseas]

Valid points Truthseeker, I agree totally!


The music of Joy Division isn't happy either and gives back somewhat the industrial working-class feel of that time. The new or cold wave came to existence in these areas late seventies, begin eighties. That's why I can imagine these surroundings must've been hard Sunniva and a perfect application of what Truthseeker has been saying here.


Yeah the light and the dark should be balanced like white and black, night and day. We all have a dark side, some more than others, but many people deny this instead of dealing with it.


But with the sun in your name you can be sure sun's always there!! :thumbsup: That also seems to be the proof of a learned lesson, doesn't it?

 

[Sunniva]

But with the sun in your name you can be sure sun's always there!! That also seems to be the proof of a learned lesson, doesn't it?

That's really sweet Sunniva isn't my real name though, but it is one of my favourite names since it popped into my mind years ago. Maybe my subconsious mind chose that name for a reason : angel


I absolutely agree with you guys on the impact of one's social environment on your psyche. In my current life I've been quite spoiled so far (not in a material way) by having met no real problems, being surrounded by people who loves me and supports me and living in an environment that is slightly more optimistic and interesting than working class Birmingham in the late 1970's.


It is probably not related, but when I was a kid I absolutely hated the music my dad and older brother listened to which was exactly the kind of music Jamie would have known - Pink Floyd, the Doors, the Beatles (my brother being younger than my father would listen to late 1970's early 80's rock music, but not punk as I remember it). I can't remember why I hated it, but it just made extremely angry and gave me hysterical fits whenever either of them put on a record and turned up the volume. I don't mind the music now - as a matter of fact I've grown to really like that music and I can appreciate it (even turned up loud ). I wonder if any of that negativity towards that music in my childhood was connected to bad memories of that life.

 

[Overseas]

Yeah it's a beautiful name!


Music can trigger memories, either good or bad, that's obvious to me. Like if one was listening a lot to let's say Joy Division (out of consistency ) in a difficult period and then you listened for months or years to some very positive music. When you take the record of JD again and put it on after a long while then your memories from that time will come back, regardless of how you see that music itself. But even Bob Marley might trigger some bad memories depending on which state you were in when you listened to it. But we can overcome this instead of not wanting to listen to a particular song anymore, which is a flight from it. I know some people that do this and this is wrong imo.


Hearing some songs that link you with the past can maybe be confronting but I think we can deal with this at our own pace without fleeing. Or you can just throw it away when ya don't like it anymore :laugh:


Like we all evolve I guess our music choice evolves too. Some music just has better vibes than others.

 

[Sunniva]

Last night I decided to give Joy Division a listen on youtube. As much as I was hoping for some kind of epiphany, nothing really stroke a cord with me. The original version of 'Love will tear us apart' didn't even do something for me, I actually found it quite boring and it made me rather restless. No offense, Overseas, as I know you are really into JD.


I'm not putting too much into it since I purposely listened to the music in the hope of triggering past life memories, but during the guitarsolo in 'She's lost control' (I think it was that one) I had a flash of hearing that specific song on a radio playing in a kitchen. Really quite undramatic :laugh: Also the music video of 'Love will tear us apart' seemed familiar, but more in the sense of the environment, their clothing, etc.


To be honest, I had a distinct feeling that Jamie (PL persona) wasn't really into JD. I don't even know if music played a huge part in his life or whether it was more like a soundtrack to him. I think he would possibly have been more into a band like The Ramones.

 

[Overseas]

The original version of 'Love will tear us apart' didn't even do something for me, I actually found it quite boring and it made me rather restless.

I see JD as some industrial orchestra guiding an otherworldly inspiration a115.gif. Never heard someone say they're boring but I might believe one finds Love Will Tear Us Apart boring. There is that repetitive melody. But does everything that you find boring, makes you restless? If you know that, you can decide for yourself whether this was a PL remembrance or not. The Love Will Tear Us Apart song has been played over and over in time, so that's a slight overkill. I tend to listen to other songs of them more, but Ian's lyrics here remain great to me, Love Will Tear Us Apart being the humorous contradictory little plot (like in fact Gainsbourg wrote one also) in a problem situation. And such a lyric can just make strong versions on acoustic guitar or piano, because the lyric is so strong in itself (although I never liked Paul Young's version but that wasn't acoustic either :laugh


But hey I love JD, but there's lots of others music I love too. They made something beautiful out of difficulties, like most supreme creations/drama do. I regard Ian as a romantic poet, JD as an industrial soundscape of their time and surroundings. But it isn't quite music that you put on every day, in fact I didn't listen to them for a long time. One remark though, listening to music on youtube can be an easy entrance but it's also fragmentaric and put out of context.


I'll spare you my thoughts about the Ramones headbang.gif but I find their funniness not really coping with the information about your PL persona.

 

[Sunniva]

Overseas,


I appreciate your thoughts :thumbsup: In this life I'm not into punk music at all, so I've never listened to it. Mostly I've regarded it as being just noisy. One of my friends used to play in a punk band and he introduced me to The Ramones, although his enthusiasm didn't influence me :laugh:


As I wrote above, I'm not sure if music played such a big part in Jamie's life. I'm sure that he was part of a punk community and I also feel that he did go to concerts. The bohemian-like environment appeals to me, young men without a job, hanging around desolate areas, drinking, smoking, listening to music and talking philosophy, doing drugs later and going out wrecking stuff. It probably sounds weird, but that's the context I see him in.

 

[Overseas]

That's not that weird, 'Jamie was a punk(-rocker)', which is ok with me :laugh:


I like punk-rock because it has that fists in the air, anarcho-mentality and it used to be about social unjustice. Love that feel, the drive and the artistic creativity that went with it in the seventies-begin eighties. Nowadays a band like Gossip gives me that feel and Yeah Yeah Yeahs, but I think they're more artistically driven. In this life I'm more into music than I think I ever was in PL's, but my somewhat contrary behaviour has always been there!

 

[Overseas]

Today's thirty years ago Ian Curtis died, one of the most influencial persons out of the English punk rock scene. There were shows about him on radio stations around. So he influenced Bono, Frusciante, Moby, Radiohead, Grace Jones etc... You'll know these guys if you're a bit into pop. I've often wondered where he'd be now :angel: I know he was a knight in a previous life. And that's where I found an interesting link with yet another sad news I heard today (but happened yesterday or the day before), the death of Ronnie James Dio, another music legend. When you watch some pictures of Dio, you'll see he often dresses like a knight or is being pictured seated at his medieval desk. I found this a nice correlation. Of course you can see more often an influence of a PL with a public figure, especially with creative people, also because they're often in the public eye.


This is kind of a side note, I didn't want this to be a new thread, so I hope it's ok that I posted it here.

 

[Sunniva]

I had a very strange experience tonight. I was listening to a show on ustream when suddenly 'Girls on Film' by Duran Duran came up. I got this very strong feeling of recognition (almost deja vu'ish), shivers and I even felt somewhat...nauseaus. I've never felt that with a song before.


Obviously I know Duran Duran, but in this life I've never been into 80's music (I was teenager in the 90's). I might have heard the song before too, but I've never had that kind of reaction before. So weird. Certainly that doesn't really fit in with the 'punk rock-theme' of Jamie's life? Or maybe Duran Duran was his secret passion?


I had such a clear feeling that this song was related to Jamie's girlfriend in some way. Maybe this song was just on the radio at a crucial time in his life? It was released in 1981 around the time of his death, so maybe that's a connection?


Any opinions?

 

[Overseas]

Duran Duran wasn't that far from the punk-rock scene, it was the new wave which evolved out of and also merged with punk-rock

 

[ChrisR]

As a hardcore punk rocker during the early 80's, I had a soft spot for some of Duran Duran's music, and a few other 'pop' bands - but I would never have admitted that to my friends : angel maybe you were the same? It's probably more common than you think

 

[Sunniva]

Thanks guys! That is very valuable information for me

As a hardcore punk rocker during the early 80's, I had a soft spot for some of Duran Duran's music, and a few other 'pop' bands - but I would never have admitted that to my friends

While listening to the song I actually had a flash of myself looking into a mirror singing along. Not in a theatrical way, brush in hand, pretending to be the lead, but my lips were definitely moving to the song. I will listen to the song again to see if I get flashes knowing these things

 

[Truthseeker]

I can honestly say that in this life, when alone, I get into some songs that I wouldn't be eager to share with my friends. : angel


It could be that Duran Duran was Jamie's girlfriend's favorite group.