psychiatry vs remembering

[Lynnette]

Hi. I wasn't sure where exactly was the best place to write this, so hope its ok here?

The last week or so, I have been doing some work experience in various psychiatric and mental health settings, and the things I heard and saw there have set me thinking about the processes of regression, meditation, remembering etc. Why is it some people regress spontaneously, others have to work hard at it, and some can't do it at all? Some people can happily slide into a meditative state, others just cannot switch off no matter how hard they try??

Well, with regards to psychiatry, following my usual questions of, well, HOW? exactly, and Why, I managed to wrangle the following, that depression/psychosis/schizophrenia etc seem to follow on from a disturbance in various neurotransmitter levels in the brain, though no one seems to be quite sure why/how/what.

The medication that is used, Lithium, for example, appears to alter the permeability of various neurosynaptic membranes, again no one can tell me exactly how, or why, only that this then seems to affect the distribution and transference of the neurotransmitters, which then rebalances the system, as it were, and helps to reduce the symptoms.

Following on from this, I got to thinking about the symptoms this can cause, hallucinations for example, and got talking in depth about what exactly people see/hear, what they think about it, etc. and I mean really in depth i.e. describe it to me right down to the smallest detail (I was suprised how keen they were to find an open ear. Apparently the doctors usually only need to hear the fact that they are seeing things and nothing else then seems to matter!) Well any way, having heard these I suddenly thought, well, if this variation in neurotransmitter levels results in hallucination and entering into a dream-likes state (poor concentration, forgetfulness, internalisation etc), I wonder if a similar thing happens in regression or meditation; that those who enter these states really easily do so because they have good neurotransmitter transference, or relatively low levels, or maybe even low levels like the amounts that would normally bring on a psychological or mood disorder, only it doesn't in these individuals. And whether this explains why some people can't?

What do people think? Comments etc? Am I barking up the completely wrong tree in my musings? How would people from both categories describe themselves. For example, those who can easily regress/meditate, and those who can't.. how would you describe your state in the normal scheme of things? Are you dreamy or unfocussed or etc in your normal day? It might be really interesting to know. : angel

 

[Lynnette]

... Taking another line of thought following the same experience... I have read posts about people seeing or feeling or sensing spirits etc; of lives existing in different dimensions but coinciding at the same time (if that makes sense? ie. the past, present and future existing in the same continuum??) and then I had the thougts about peoples hallucinations wandering through my mind, and then the thoughts about previous lives and past memories and etc.


Anyways, I suddenly had another dream the other night, which was a suprise - I don't really dream anymore since I verified the people I had in my old dreams..., but then it also gave me quite a neat pathway for my musings, which I thought might be interesting to share here.


Well, the dream was of the old man again, or the 'grandfather', and we were sat facing each other on the grass, and I knew he wanted to teach me something - interestingly, he never speaks, but I just know somehow what he is saying or implying to me. He pointed to a stone on the grass and said 'look. What do you see?' There was a small rock. So I said, 'a rock??' He pointed again. 'What do you see?' I looked harder, a little confused. Maybe I was missing something. The only obvious thing was that one grey rock, so I told him.'I see a grey rock.' He tried a third time and made me really look and then to tell him exactly what it was I could see. 'A jaggedy grey rock.' he nodded, but when I tried to pick it up and look at it, he stopped me, then made me describe everything about it that I could see. When I had finished and mentioned every permutation of colour, size, texture, feel etc I could think of, he shook his head and said. 'You lie. You are wrong.' Well, that sure threw me. Anyhow, then he described the rock. and finished with an emphatic 'THAT is what it looks like.' I shook my head confused and asked why is my description so wrong? and he said 'i don't believe you, because what you are describing is not what I see. The rock I see is different.' 'But its the same rock!' I said. He nodded, and then picked it up and turned it around, and made me describe it again. 'So the rock you see now is not the same as the rock you saw before?' he asked, when I finished. 'Because you described it differently.' Eventually i twigged and he smiled at me and nodded. Then told me 'if you were to sit different men all around that rock, and they all believed only what they could see, they would never believe each other, even though for his part what each man says is true. That's because they cannot see the whole picture. They can only see what is before them, and so dismiss what anyone else believes.' Then he told me to look at the world around me, see if I could see things as through different peoples' eyes.


So on the bus, I did. First through my own eyes I noticed the pigeons on the roof tops, the old, old fancy brickwork interspersed with the horrible modern stuff, the budhlia growing from a window ledge... Then I tried to think like the stone scenario. Someone who was interested in cars might see only those - the rest of the scene is oblivious to him. The same with someone who sees only the shop window fronts, and similarly to those who only notice the people, or etc etc. So much is happening around us, but we often barely notice them, and so don't realise they're there. We only see the things we want or choose or are interested to see, and so, in effect nothing else exists...


I thought the whole lesson was really interesting with regards to all the spiritual/past life/multi-dimension stuff. Maybe there is something to it, but we don't know/can't see/don't believe it, because it is not in our focus of vision???

 

[Nightrain]

...I had the thoughts about people's hallucinations wandering through my mind, and then the thoughts about previous lives and past memories and etc.
CLIP


...he smiled at me and nodded. Then told me 'if you were to sit different men all around that rock, and they all believed only what they could see, they would never believe each other, even though for his part what each man says is true. That's because they cannot see the whole picture. They can only see what is before them, and so dismiss what anyone else believes.' Then he told me to look at the world around me, see if I could see things as through different peoples' eyes.

Hi Lynnette!


The dream you had of your grandfather is profoundly deep and very important in understanding the issues of truth vs. perception. While it's true that our minds can create their own perceptions, there is certainly a great deal of truth in your experience. Our brains can be physically manipulated to perceive the presence of entities, but who is to say that the entity or its message is not true? We can suffer from chemical imbalances, which alter our perceptions; but does this mean that what one sees is, or is not meaningful?


I'm sadly aware that too many psychologists don't continue their inquiries beyond what they consider symptoms of delusion. Just as you say, many "patients" can describe their experiences in such detail; that one wonders, if their reports could possibly be validated, somehow. Validation, after all, is the means of comparison between individuals; which determines the relative "truth" of their common experience. But, we know that such truth can still be wrong or illusory. We know that an entire civilization with a certain belief system can be wrong about their commonly accepted perceptions. So how can we determine what the truth really is?


We are in a period in which many closely held beliefs are being challenged by ancient philosophy as well as modern science. Many people like yourself, who are beginning to practice within the strict disciplines of science, are feeling the effects of these challenges; and nothing can be as "cut-and-dried" as it used to be. So, we are left with a new paradigm with which to judge all reported perceptions that cannot be empirically and clinically tested. This paradigm may best be described as, "If it heals, consider it a useful tool."


We have no way of knowing what perceptions or memories are real. But many practitioners that I consider most credible, such as Dr. Brian Weiss and Carol Bowman, are more concerned about the healing results of regression therapy. Of course, we all find it fulfilling to validate the accuracy of our own memories. However, the thing that adds true usefulness to any therapy is the healing effect. It should not matter, so much, that something was perceived accurately or not. What matters is that it works.


The other issue of validation and accuracy, I believe, can only be judged primarily in the mind of each individual. The rest is largely up to science, which is gradually finding the evidence that supports the existence of "psi", or paranormal phenomenon. But, even the most provable facts will still be challenged by those who choose not to believe.


So, in essence, there is no way for us to determine what is absolutely true, so long as we exist on the physical plane; for, what is physical is only a small part of all there is.