• Thank you to Carol and Steve Bowman, the forum owners, for our new upgrade!

Science facts about reincarnation, and making our future lives better

R

reincarnated77

New Member
Scientists generally agree that matter cannot be destroyed, just transformed from one form to another.

Since nobody can prove reincarnation doesn't happen, that means that it is possible that we do get reincarnated.
If matter really never goes away, then reincarnation could happen over and over again, for all eternity.

I was an A+ student in science, and have read medical articles, encyclopedias, and more.

All the scientific evidence I can find seems to point to reincarnation forever, as the most likely scenario.
Even after our sun goes supernova and burns up earth, the matter and energy are interchangeable, and will eventually
form again. It may take a long time, but there is a lot of time in infinity.

We seem to be made of matter, and if that matter returns, then so can we.

It's almost like a car going to the junkyard, the metal melted down and made into a new car.
Almost all steel is recycled these days.

There is a lot more science I have found out about, but I don't want to write a book here.

It seems more important to discuss what we should do about this. I want my future lives to be good.

This is important.

We cannot be absolutely certain of anything, including karma. As long as some people are starving, it could be us
in our next million lifetimes. The only way to guarantee we don't suffer in the future
is to make sure nobody is suffering in the future.

In other words, if we make a sustainable system where nobody starves ever again, then we won't have to worry
about starving. We could turn this planet into a heaven on earth, a real one we can see and enjoy.

The technology exists to solve problems, but as long as people are divided and not bothering with it,
then we will continue to have problems. I have ideas to solve these problems.
I want my heaven on earth.

Do you?

What are your thoughts?
 
Reincarnated77,


Welcome to the forum.


You have expressed some noble sentiments here for your vision of a future heaven here on earth, but allow me to disagree with a few points you have mentioned here.


Reincarnation does not happen for eternity (In my opinion). It is a progressive system which does have an end. Earth is like a school, and nobody goes to school forever. When the lessons are learned, you move on, and eventually graduate.


Infinity, strangely enough, is not infinite. Perhaps if you included Blavatsky's 'Secret Doctrine' in your list of reading material it may tend to modify your thoughts on the matter somewhat. Particularly in relation to the 'Breath of Brahma'. The universe does not last forever. It has a limited timespan which, when completed, is followed by an equal time of non-existence. Then it begins again.


If you want your future lives to be good, then this life is the time and place to construct your future circumstances.


As far as turning earth into a heaven, there are many forces working against that which so far have thwarted that ideal. Science, industry and the people who hold power behind governments are trying to get off this planet, because they know it is doomed to become a dumping ground of humanity. They see their own future in controlling space to their own company laws. Anyone who doesn't go along with them will be sent back to earth to rot. As a comparison, the mining companies of today control their own sites. If you don't go along with the company agenda, you are no longer part of the company and will be required to leave the site. And once out, you will never get back in.


I am genuinely interested in your ideas to solve these problems. Because beyond all hope, I would also like to see 'A heaven on Earth'.


Regards


Merlin
 
reincarnated77 said:
I want my heaven on earth.
Do you?


What are your thoughts?
Click to expand...
Hi Reincarnated77!


And, a warm welcome to the Forum!


Your views and opinions are very astute and most respected here, and I wouldn't want to disagree with anything you've put forth. As a lay-person, myself, I could never begin to imagine or claim to know what lies ahead for any of us.


Were it not for the simple truths declared by very young children, I would still question how our consciousness is able to maintain individual identity beyond death without dissipating into the great abyss of universal energy.


Thank you very much for coming here to share your ideas, and please feel free to explore the many valuable resource available. There is much to be explored among the book references, videos and individual opinions expressed throughout.
 
Welcome 77! Glad you found us!


I loved reading your thoughts and agree 100%. Yes we can make a difference, and perhaps that is the beauty of "knowing." The whole process of human evolution always rests in the individual and the advancement of noble ideas like yours. It all begins with you and me as individuals. And, as with Merlin, I would like to see that bit of heaven here too. It is possible... and it only takes simple kindness and compassion within our own small realms of existence. AND the mindful awareness of it.


Thanks for joining us 77. I look forward to reading more from you.


Tinkerman
 
Time, space, and matter


I think that time, space, and matter is only applicable to the physical plane -- this universe. When we pass on, i think our soul/consciousness (for lack of a better term), continues to exist and is independant of the sun, atoms, and mocules, and other matter that exists in this universe.


Purhaps the atoms that form our bodies after the body decays becomes something else. However -- our true consciousness does not cease to exist and therefore does not transform into something else.


We do - as all the evidence states- live again on the phsysical plane in a different body - but our consciousness never dies or ceases to exist.
 
Heaven on earth


My plan for better future lives:


A lot of charities are trying to help, but they are small


and divided.


We need a global team of good people


and groups. It would be too large to fail.


I have ideas to make this work.


Another thing that we really need is to use competition more.


It works great in stores, giving us better variety and all that.


What if the land was divided into economic regions that need to


compete to serve us better?


It starts small of course. A popular region gets more land,


while an unpopular one goes out of business.


This kind of competition will result in all regions improving


and serving us better. We would see innovations that we


would never see with todays outdated system.


Competition works, why dont we use it more?


Please refer to my website for details, and more plans.


I know it needs work, perhaps you can offer suggestions.


It has everything we need to get started though.


http://worldsuffering.org/
 
I read all the material you have listed on your website.


Wow ! That's some agenda of social engineering.


I was in law enforcement for 20 years, and it didn't take me very long to work out that the world does not want to be regulated, much less reformed.


Good luck with your project.


Regards


Merlin
 
reincarnated77 said:
We seem to be made of matter, and if that matter returns, then so can we
Click to expand...
We are not actually made of matter, we are made of subtle energy. Matter is not actually made of matter either, matter is just the densest form of subtle energy. Matter is 99.9% empty space. Matter does not return as it cannot be destroyed, energy just is and always will be.
 
And just another observation. Your plan for ending world suffering seems to stem from your fear of starving to death in your next life. Fear is not a good motivation for anything, no matter how good the intention is. Like I said, everything is made of energy which includes fear, which is a very destructive type of energy and in most cases creates more problems than it solves. Why did Hitler feel he had to exterminate Jews? Fear. He feared them, as well as gypsies etc.


Only when humans stop operating out of fear and a need to control everything will heaven on earth become a reality. The more you pursue something out of fear and a need for control the more it will allude you. Why did the US invade Iraq? Fear and a need for control. Much of the world's suffering comes from countries fearing each other and grappling for power. Foreign aid has proven to be a failure in Africa, dire poverty has actually increased since foreign aid was introduced into Africa. So I think we need to change our thinking if we really want to create a better world. Fear is not the answer.
 
As a "baby-boomer" growing up in post-war America, I lived what many people in the world could call a privileged life, and was educated in the best schools. I, too read many books and spent countless hours pouring through encyclopedia of every sort. In my idealistic youth I thought, if everybody just quit fighting, the entire world could be in harmony and starvation would cease.


After going to war, myself, I finally realized the apparent futility of such idealism, plus the irony that my education was due only to the powerful position the United States held in the world as a result of war and the pursuit of national interest. I realized that everyone in the world has a different opinion of what their priority should be; and, so long as each opinion was different, there would never be peace and security on this earth. Until people all think exactly alike, there will be differing opinions regarding how to protect their personal, family, community and national interests. But, would you want everyone to think exactly alike?


Rather than seek heaven on earth, wouldn't it rather be more realistic to accept that earth is a proving ground for evolution of the soul? A place, perhaps, where we do what we can to promote love and connectedness, but where we accept that disease, trauma, starvation and death may be the natural order of things? Idealism is a wonderful thing, and I wouldn't want to rein in the enthusiasm that anyone has to help the world. But, for all of our academic knowledge, our efforts would be more effective and less frustrating, if we threw in a healthy dose of reality and life experience.


Never stop believing! Always continue seeking!
 
Interesting what you say about there being no peace as long everyone has a different opinion. I think that is the idea behind Christian missionaries abroad. As long as people act out of their own inherited social constructs there is always going to be tension. Once people act out of their own inner guidance will we see less conflict in the world.


I still don't see this world as a proving ground for the soul, as omniscient beings have nothing to prove. Also, I know for a fact that disease is not the nature of things, it is a result of moving away from who we really are. This creates tension in our consciousness which then moves to the energy body and then to the physical body. Cancer for example is not physical in its origin, just in its manifestation.
 
Green26 said:
I still don't see this world as a proving ground for the soul, as omniscient beings have nothing to prove. Also, I know for a fact that disease is not the nature of things, it is a result of moving away from who we really are.
Click to expand...
I agree with you that acting out our own inherited social constructs is going to cause tension, especially as communication and technology allows us to express our opinions upon societies that have been, heretofore, relatively isolated from us. Good intentions have a way of infringing upon others even within our own families.


I might also agree that disease might not have to be so inevitable, if we could all learn to manifest our positive energy more effectively. Although medical science considers any cause of death as some form of disease, death is still quite inevitable.


However, I would opine that we only become omniscient beings by gaining first-hand experience in material form. Although we may begin our existence with full knowledge of our spiritual nature, I surmise that our knowledge of desire, attraction and attachment is not complete without some considerable hard-won experience.
 
Nightrain1 said:
I might also agree that disease might not have to be so inevitable, if we could all learn to manifest our positive energy more effectively. Although medical science considers any cause of death as some form of disease, death is still quite inevitable.
Click to expand...
So a fatal car accident would be a disease by your definition?

Nightrain1 said:
However, I would opine that we only become omniscient beings by gaining first-hand experience in material form. Although we may begin our existence with full knowledge of our spiritual nature, I surmise that our knowledge of desire, attraction and attachment is not complete without some considerable hard-won experience.
Click to expand...
But that sounds like you are projecting dualistic attributes onto the afterlife. IMHO omniscience is not gained by hard work of the individual soul, it just is, and is readily available in the afterlife. We are not actually beings in the afterlife or individuals, that is duality. The afterlife is a state of unity. By living a life here you are just adding information to the omniscience. As more is experienced more is known. Well just from my perspective of course.
 
Green26 said:
So a fatal car accident would be a disease by your definition?
Click to expand...
Of course, you are correct. Accidents, murder and war are not diseases.
As more is experienced more is known.
Click to expand...
Which is pretty much the opinion I was expressing. Beyond that I wouldn't want to debate the highly theoretical issues of cosmology.
When we express our opinions we often do so within the limited framework of common knowledge, which is often in error at some level or another. Dualism, for example, can be expressed as the existence of a spiritual world alongside our physical one. Yet, there are those who might correctly argue that anything physical is just an illusion. Both assertions could be correct on some level, while both could also generate significant debate.
 
I just want to clarify a few things. First when I said "when more is experienced more is known" I meant collectively, not individually as souls. It adds to the cosmic omniscience, thus the knowledge does not need to be recreated and then experienced by each soul individually, which is the premise of soul lessons.


Also, by duality I mean the state of being separate in a physical sense. In the physical there are clear boundaries where I begin and where I finish (my body in other words) and there are also clear boundaries where other things begin and finish, (objects, animals, trees etc) The afterlife is not a state of separation, everything is connected. I am contained within you and you are contained within me. Anything that you understand I also understand. As this connectedness spans the entire cosmos, anything anybody else understands or has experienced I can also understand and experience, hence omniscient knowledge.
 
This is a very interesting conversation. I am currently feeling a bit pessimistic about "everything" and find it difficult to believe that we could ever have a "heaven on earth." It would require a major paradigm shift and people seem all too content to continue watching reality TV, eating McDonald's, and reading celebrity magazines, etc. Unless the comfort zone and routine of people is severely disrupted, no one will want to change.


I find it very disturbing that there are still people who get their drinking water from the same place cows defecate and children go hungry, etc. Is this "part of the plan" for being physical and living a human life? Apparently, we all have lives as beggars, lords, diseased, and affluent persons. The whole spectrum.


It baffles me, in the higher scheme of things, why it is necessary to experience suffering. Also, why we have to completely (or almost) forget everything upon birth. It would seem to me that remembering would be helpful.


Well, I guess I am just typing to express some feelings I've had recently, and I hope this thread was an okay place to post these questions and opinions.


:)
 
If you are interested in the paradigm shift I recommend watching the video I posted. As far as suffering goes, suffering serves a very important purpose. It tells us that we have moved away from who we really are and from what brings us joy. The soul speaks a simple language, either something feels good for us (happiness, joy etc) or it doesn't feel good for us (pain, suffering etc), suffering is just there to tell us that what we are doing is making us unhappy, sick etc and that we need to return back to our natural state of wholeness which is happiness joy etc. So at its most basic level it does serve a purpose. It is only when there is no means of alleviating the suffering that it becomes a problem. Happiness cannot be possible without suffering, they are two opposing polarities which can only exist within the context of duality.
 
Spirit_Wanderer said:
Also, why we have to completely (or almost) forget everything upon birth. It would seem to me that remembering would be helpful.
Click to expand...
I have been trying to find an answer to that for a LONG time to and so far nobody has been able to answer that question to my satisfaction (people have answered, but I didn't have too much trouble debunking the premise behind the answers). Cosmic oversight would be my best guess, but can't really give you a real answer on that one. But a totally valid question.
 
I don't know if this applies or not but I'll throw it out for consideration.


There is a recognized and to this day not fully understood phenomenon of "childhood amnesia" that impacts our ability to recall events from our earliest days of existence.


I am including a link to a rather simple experiment which concludes that we do not remember because our ability to implant the memories with language is not possible.


At age 3 I was hit by a car and dragged down the street hanging on a car bumper. I have only vague recollections of the incident but nothing spectacular as I might if it had occurred later in life.


I do, however, have what can be described as "body memories" especially whenever I experience difficult situations while driving or even as a passenger in a car. I have never been completely at ease with cars.


I also have the classic PTSD symptoms such as hyper vigilance, extreme startle reactions, etc. which I have very little control over.


Perhaps something of this nature is at work with past life recall.


Perhaps it is more of a retrieval issue with us in our current existence rather than how those memories from the past are archived.
 
Hi Spirit Wanderer,


A conversation between King Menander, an ancient Greek ruler of north western India, and the Buddhist sage who converted him:


“Why are men not all alike, but some short lived and some long, some sickly and some healthy, some ugly and some handsome, some weak and some strong, some poor and some rich, some base and some noble?”


“Why, your Majesty,” replied the Elder, “are all plants not alike but some astringent, some salty, some pungent, some sour, some sweet?”


“I suppose, your Reverence, because they come from different seeds.”


“And so it is with men! They are not all alike because of different karmas. As the Lord said, 'Beings each have their own karma, they are born through karma, each is ruled by karma, it is karma that divides them into high and low.'”


(Reincarnation, The Second Chance. Sybil Leek.) p.136


I am of the opinion that if we were to be born with full memory of all we have been, we would carry with us all our old bias's, such as class distinctions, racial likes and dislikes, political and social affiliations, etc.


To be continually born to, say, an upper class and be antagonistic or biased towards a lower class, is not the way to progress spiritually within yourself. A good way to get rid of that bias is to be born into the class that is the object of your scorn so that you may experience both sides of the situation. Hence we are made to forget. Remembering would be totally counter productive.


Man only learns what he experiences, and the only way to learn the lessons of the physical is to be IN the physical.


Much of the literature of reincarnation supports this.


Regards


Merlin
 
Merlin said:
“And so it is with men! They are not all alike because of different karmas. As the Lord said, 'Beings each have their own karma, they are born through karma, each is ruled by karma, it is karma that divides them into high and low.'”


(Reincarnation, The Second Chance. Sybil Leek.) p.136
Click to expand...
Karma is just human misinterpretation, as is sin (in my opinion).

Merlin said:
I am of the opinion that if we were to be born with full memory of all we have been, we would carry with us all our old bias's, such as class distinctions, racial likes and dislikes, political and social affiliations, etc.
To be continually born to, say, an upper class and be antagonistic or biased towards a lower class, is not the way to progress spiritually within yourself. A good way to get rid of that bias is to be born into the class that is the object of your scorn so that you may experience both sides of the situation. Hence we are made to forget. Remembering would be totally counter productive.


Man only learns what he experiences, and the only way to learn the lessons of the physical is to be IN the physical.


Much of the literature of reincarnation supports this.


Regards


Merlin
Click to expand...
If we were to die and progress into the afterlife with all of our social beliefs, social constructs and prejudices intact, that might be plausible, but that isn't the case. Any and all beliefs, religious, political, economic, social or otherwise all get stripped away upon death. Beliefs can change during one's life time, and the memory of having held a particular belief at some point in time does not cause the belief to reemerge in the person at a later point in life. Thus amnesia would be unnecessary as a protection from the reemergence of social programming from other lives.
 
Yes Merlin, I agree. I believe the ancient wisdom of karma has a place in our journey of understanding. Thanks for the reference.


I would like to remind all participants here to post your beliefs as your opinion, or your belief. When we profess with certainty, things that are not certain, we hinder constructive dialog.


Tinkerman
 
Spirit_Wanderer said:
Unless the comfort zone and routine of people is severely disrupted, no one will want to change.
:)
Click to expand...
True, but most people in the world do not live in the comfort zone.


There is a lot of unrest going on as we speak.


This project is not going to be easy.


If we want heaven on earth, we can't give up when things start to get difficult.


There are a lot of people who would enjoy a heaven on earth,


and they will likely support this project if we can just


get it started.


I think the reason we have problems now is because


people are divided, not working as a team. A lot of people would


like better lives, but don't know what to do.


If we show them one team they can join, that will be


worldwide and grow big enough to work, then that offers


hope, and hope can work wonders.


Thats why part of my plan is to get all good people


in the world to join this effort. I think such a large


global team would be big enough to accomplish anything.


That, combined with the benefits from competition of


different regions, should be enough to get started.


The best part is that its easy to get started. If we just


tell somebody, preferably somebody who has a lot of energy,


about my plans, then maybe the team will get started.


What do you think of the concept of putting together


a team of all good people and groups?
 
I feel that there are better battles to fight, since it seems this planet was never meant to be a "heaven" in the first place -why leave heaven for heaven? And why fight so hard to make it a heaven when heaven is always, pretty much, a breath away?


This is the place where we create experiences we wouldn't otherwise have. This is the place where we learn opposites, and learn right from wrong. I feel there is a greater purpose in this than we realize, and that, deep down, subconsciously, we all know it. Most of us probably don't even want to think about it. We want to be human, not angels. I know I do.
 
Green26 said:
I have been trying to find an answer to that for a LONG time to and so far nobody has been able to answer that question to my satisfaction (people have answered, but I didn't have too much trouble debunking the premise behind the answers). Cosmic oversight would be my best guess, but can't really give you a real answer on that one. But a totally valid question.
Click to expand...
I have always felt that this was a merciful thing. Think about what it would be like to be reborn with full knowledge of every past life. You would not be able to focus on the present life, form relationships with people, etc., as you would be so concerned with your previous lives.


I have experienced this, remembering my past lives in great detail at an early age caused me a lot of emotional stress and has interefered with my personal life and relationships. I have learned to accept things as they come back to me, to not be so worried and trying to recall every experience. My memories will come back to me when I am ready to remember.


I believe the Hindus refer to this as curtain or veil that separates our past memories from this life's, as man cannot bear the emotional and spiritual burden otherwise. Perhaps the few that remember do so because they are spiritual capable to handle it. The world will see more and more cases of this, as we all learn and grow from our experiences. We are seeing this today, because, it is my personal belief, that we are in the midst of a spiritual awakening. If my theory is correct, it will be interesting to see how this pans out.
 
crystal_44 said:
I have always felt that this was a merciful thing. Think about what it would be like to be reborn with full knowledge of every past life. You would not be able to focus on the present life, form relationships with people, etc., as you would be so concerned with your previous lives.
Click to expand...
I actually find this position to be lacking, as it does not account for the damage caused by the limited awareness of each individual incarnation or ego. Would Hitler still have killed 6 million jews if he had remembered being a jew, or anything other than what the beliefs of his ego supported? Probably not. Not to mention the awareness of the unconditional love of the afterlife realm. Most NDErs are changed by the experience and are not the same person when they come back due to their expanded understanding and awareness. I caused cancer to manifest in my body in this life because I bought into destructive and erroneous new age beliefs and due to amnesia was not able to understand things as they actually were.


I can guarantee you, if everybody brought an awareness of who they really were and how our energy affects our bodies (and how we affect each other), there would be no illness on this planet. So if that is the case that we choose not to remember because it is too burdensome and too emotional we are throwing out the baby with the bathwater because ignorance is 100 times more destructive than past life recall IMO.
 
Anybody read the Unbearable Lightness of Being by Milan Kundera? It kind of ties in with this topic.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top