• Thank you to Carol and Steve Bowman, the forum owners, for our new upgrade!

Time as relative and non-sequential

Ailish, I believe the fundamental question is: Where is your Soul-Consciounsess now????


I know that mine, certainly, is not in my lifetime as Bonnie Prince Charlie...


Certainly I have accessed that "time", but the "Soul-Consciousness", both individually and collectively, is always "in the now", and there is certainly a linearity/continuity to it. The space-time continuum applies both in the physical and in the spiritual realms. The rest, to me, is "New Age" nonsense...
 
traditionally in africa time was based on emotional events not numerical calculations and there was no true concept of the future - there time was something that was generated.


There are some really interesting time concepts among the finnish and some indigenous american groups when I find the articles again i'll post them.
 
Yes, the Australian Aboriginies also have their own unique concept of time. It is not well understood by Europeans, and it causes confusion sometimes.

The Aboriginal concept of time differs from the Judeo-*Christian perception of time in that Aboriginal people do not perceive time as an exclusively `linear' category (i.e. past−present−future) and often place events in a `circular' pattern of time according to which an individual is in the centre of `time-circles' and events are placed in time according to their relative importance for the individual and his or her respective community (i.e. the more important events are perceived as being `closer in time')...
Australasian Psychiatry
There is a lot of misunderstanding of the term 'dreamtime' in the Whitefella world and it is key to this misunderstanding in my view. For starters, the term is poorly translated. It was originally translated into English by white missionaries back in the 1800s. As they tried to learn the various indigenous languages and discuss matters spiritual, teach Christianity, study the sociology of the people, and so on they struggled to find a word in English to encapture the meaning of this strange concept that weaves throughout the culture, but there isn't one, so 'dreamtime' was the best they could do.


Many people think it means 'the old days' - back in the ancient times of the great stories of how the world was created, how various rivers were formed, mountain ranges came to have their strange shape and so on. And, yes, it does mean that, sort of... It also means the stories themselves. Without the use of reading and writing, the Aborigines created an oral history in stories and tales, dances and ceremonies which accurately records events that have long since vanished from the memories of Europeans. The Aborigines are operating on a time scale at least 30 times longer than our history, if we go back to say, Ancient Rome or Egypt, and not a clay tablet in sight.


Aboriginal people have been in Australia for at least 60,000 years and represent the world's oldest living culture. Many of their stories involve giant kangaroos, goannas and so on. They used to be thought of as fanciful and rather childish tales by the early missionaries, but in fact fossil records show that Aborigines were in Australia when there were such megafauna in abundance (before the Aborigines hunted and ate them all according to some!). The stories contain social morals and teach the basics of the 'laws' - similar to Bible tales and fairy tales taught to western children to teach them about social norms and the general benefits of good behaviour and folly of disobeying one's parents. Other stories are about matters more secret and sacred and are only allowed to be told to certain people or sung at certain important times of the year.


So, what's that go to do with it? The term 'Dreamtime' refers to time of the 'Dreamtime stories', but it also refers to the 'feeling' that the story-teller and the listeners and dancers get when they 'relive' the stories in the time honoured ways. It means a kind of 'meditative space' where they can 'be' in the past situation again and really 'feel' it again, feel the 'spirit of the dream time' so to speak.


It is also used in other situations to describe the 'spirit world'. The dreamtime is where the ancient monsters and warriors of the ancient tales are still very much alive and still very much engaged in doing whatever it is they do. It is also where the ancestors live, still very much alive and still very concerned with the goings on of their various descendants, the keeping of skin, obeying the marriage laws properly, and so on.


Of course they understand all about 'whitefella time'. Of course they interact with linear time while going about their day-to-day business. But they see it as a whole other 'category' of time, that is, not the only one. Both are ice-cream, just quite different flavours. I certainly understand time that way myself.


So, I don't think Australian Aborigines would have any trouble wrapping their heads around the idea of simultaneous incarnations. They just have a different, non-linear way of describing the experience - 'dreamtime' indeed.
 
Having just read through the posts and references included in this thread, I have to admit considerable ignorance about some of the concepts offered, vis a vis; that time is relative, and that Past, Present, and Future are all one. Although these concepts are appealing and very mind-jogging, I am only truly capable of understanding time as constant and sequential. Although it appears that time seems to progress more quickly as one grows older, I know that the nature of time, itself, has not changed. Only my perception of it has. It is easy for me to accept that different cultures have different ways of perceiving time, but I propose that time, itself, is still a universal and constant thing in all cultures. And, I would dare to say that time is exactly the same in other galaxies as it is here.


I can entertain and consider such concepts as are suggested by quantum mechanics and Einstein's relativity; But, I realize that I must function in this life as part of a three-dimensional reality. When an appointment is set for a specific time, I know that I must leave for that appointment within a predictable period. And, if I fail to appear on time, I cannot resort to the excuse that time is relative, or that I am on time in another parallel universe; even though our discussions often entertain that such things could be possible.


Yet, if I experience an other-worldly memory of a past life on the way to that appointment, I am willing to accept that for what it is. And, if I experience a premonition that something is going to happen in the near future, I am also willing to accept that for what it is. These are still things that impact upon me in this three-dimensional reality, and I would be foolish to ignore them, even if there is no clear explanation as to how such things work.


When it comes to considering issues of theoretical physics, the only impact it has on this life is to make me a little more humble and reflective. Otherwise, I can't begin to understand what lies beyond. Nor can I agree or disagree with any opinion or insight that is held by anyone else here regarding those theories. So, if I debate or entertain anything that is proposed in that realm, I do it only for the fun of it, and for the exercise it gives my mind. But, when it comes to time, I tend to believe that it exists in this plane of reality as a constant and sequential phenomenon. The only difference is how it is perceived and dealt with by different people and different cultures.


My apologies to Alfred Einstein notwithstanding...


-Nightrain
 
very interesting tanguerra,thanks for posting that.


Here is an excerpt from an article called "backs to the future" about the strange aymara concept of time.


Tell an old Aymara speaker to "face the past!" and you just might get a blank stare in return – because he or she already does.


New analysis of the language and gesture of South America's indigenous Aymara people indicates a reverse concept of time.



Contrary to what had been thought a cognitive universal among humans – a spatial metaphor for chronology, based partly on our bodies' orientation and locomotion, that places the future ahead of oneself and the past behind – the Amerindian group locates this imaginary abstraction the other way around: with the past ahead and the future behind.



The Aymara, especially the elderly who didn't command a grammatically correct Spanish, indicated space behind themselves when speaking of the future – by thumbing or waving over their shoulders – and indicated space in front of themselves when speaking of the past – by sweeping forward with their hands and arms, close to their bodies for now or the near past and farther out, to the full extent of the arm, for ancient times. In other words, they used gestures identical to the familiar ones – only exactly in reverse.
 
Back
Top