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Why Do So Many People Claim To Be Famous In A Past Life?

Thank you for posting that, Totoro. We needed to hear from someone who has walked the "notable" PL path. Owl gets a nod of appreciation also. Rustic Kid, I agreed with everything you said. Well done!
 
Owl said:
Errr... no. Sorry.
Red Night had all right to be upset, you are pretty much attacking anyone who claims a FPL.
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No, I wasn't intentionally attacking anyone. I just used that as an EXAMPLE. I didn't mean to come off that way.

BriarRose said:
But, I think HeatherMarie just phrased her opinion in an overly strong way, probably not realizing we have quite a few "famous" members, who choose not to be public with their memories.
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I did. I don't understand why everyone freaks out if someone thinks FPL's are mostly BS because a LOT of them probably are.

Totoro said:
I admit at first, I too was chagrined by HeatherMarie's comment. But I also think that she was speaking in loathe of attention seekers (which is something I think we can all relate to) and not actual, legitimate cases.
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I am no expert on reincarnation, I just think people shouldn't seek publicity for FPL's. I think that's WRONG and there's nothing wrong with saying that.

Red Night said:
I didn't mean for my post to sound like I was getting all charged up; I was just a little irritated. I took it all a bit personally... No hard feelings, I hope!
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Nah it's fine. I didn't mean to come off as saying people on the forum shouldn't talk about FPL's. I think that's fine, I just hate when people seek publicity for it.
 
I have a theory that people register certain names because of the obvious fame and familiarity of those famous names at the time of their previous incarnation. And the percentage that is totally uneven or disproportionate is a result from misunderstanding, often willfully so that one WAS that persona. I believe it's possible but usually the result of someone wanting to believe that they had achieved a greatness they feel they currently lack and it empowers them, in combination with remembering that familiarity. It's a confusion, melding the two together as one. Everyone from an era WOULD remember the most famous general/king/tsar/spiritual leader or whatever. Not everyone was the direct incarnations of those people. Also, there is a general lack of discussion about this sort of thing in the media so without a great deal of "experts" to turn to, people go with more unrealistic explanations for their regression experiences.
 
Deborah said:
It's a matter of perception. Perhaps he saw the time spent with the child as a blessing, and the situation an opportunity to demonstrate acceptance and another way to truth. I am sure the outcome of the situation only made others trust him more and with high regard.
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Well said. It really doesn't matter what other people are up to. That's their business.
 
I think it's a common enough error for people to assume they're remembering something 'famous' because that's what they've learned. They might remember an incident in the French Revolution. Suddenly think they were Marie Antoinette. That's OK. It doesn't mean they're making it up. Sometimes they're just mistaken and can get a bit carried away. With some more exploration it usually turns out they were the Marquise of Something-or-other-else. Many thousands of nobles met their end at the hands of Madame La Guilloutine and I'm sure that's a very vivid memroy to have. Ditto many other notable moments in history.


It's best to stick with what people actually remember and worry about 'validations' and 'proof' later in my view. The more humble lives are harder to 'prove' but no less or more important to the individual concerned. That said, sure some people were 'famous' once upon a time. So what?
 
Sunniva said:
Why do people claim them? Why are people so sceptical about it? And what are you going to do if you have memories of being a famous person?
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Respectfully snipped.


Here are my two cents on the question.


I think that so many people believe they had famous past lives for different reasons. Sometimes it's motivated by boredom and wanting to sound "cooler" or more interesting, even if consciously they don't know this is what they're doing. When I was in school, I had a slightly older friend who claimed to have been a famous person in a past life and this friend truly seemed to believe it, so it wasn't an intentional lie -- except most verifiable details didn't match up, and the ones that did are the sort of generic information you can get from popular TV shows.


It doesn't mean that the person doing it is a bad person or that they're liars, because as I said above, it can be an honest mistake.


I also feel like this may be a case of false memories. For example, reading about something, forgetting about it, and then months later remembering those facts or incorporating them into memories, in a way that seems out of the blue because the person can't remember ever learning about it. Once again, I don't think this is done with malicious intent, it's just a matter of your brain picking up on things and then re-using them to make whatever you're reading sound familiar or to make you recall slightly more vivid scenes and emotions based on the information that is lurking at the back of your mind. I've read that one of the causes of déjà-vu is that people's brains sometimes register what's going on less consciously before they actually notice it, so it feels like an old memory but it's just something you absorbed a few moments earlier.


Finally, I also think it may be a wrong identification. If someone remembers a major historical event or a place, they may simply assume they were one of the key players, when they could easily have been someone standing on the sidelines -- Anne Boleyn's fate may sound familiar to you, but perhaps you weren't her, but someone who knew her or had heard about her life at one point. It's just that details about famous people are more readily available, so unless people know where to look or don't need to seek out records to validate their memories, this is the first thing they'll stumble upon.


As to why people are sceptical about it, I think it's because the most likely scenario is that it's something like what I said above, even if that person doesn't think so. I would say that the chances of someone actually having been famous in a past life are very slim, so it's very questionable when you have a huge influx of people, sometimes with contradictory claims. I think it's also because even though I don't think most people do it with malicious intent, there are people who do lie on purpose, and they end up giving others a bad impression of this sort of claim. Not to mention that, from a more rational perspective, there are so many alternatives (false memories, weird brain phenomena, people having been someone who lived during that time but wasn't famous) that it feels like many people who just identify with a famous person don't think those through, or end up getting so attached to their past life identity that, even unintentionally, they end up being dismissive of these possibilities.


I think that if someone has memories of a famous past life, it would help to do a lot of research about the time period and genuinely consider the possibility that they were simply someone else who knew this famous person or heard about them. It's also important to keep an open mind, because even if you aren't being wrong on purpose, it doesn't mean that you can't be wrong. I get the feeling that a lot of people who claim to have been famous sometimes end up feeling like they're somehow living a lie if they turn out to be wrong, and in my opinion, if it turns out that you're wrong about a past life, it shouldn't cause any actual negative feelings -- it's in the past, and even if you were wrong all along, hopefully you learnt something from the experience. If you would feel distressed if you turned out to be wrong, you may be getting too attached to it.
 
BriarRose said:
Thank you for posting that, Totoro. We needed to hear from someone who has walked the "notable" PL path.
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Thank you :) And while I still prefer not to talk about it in open conversation (or outside of the confines of my one thread) I think it was important for me to say that for those of us that are sincere, we're just as deserving of the help and support as anyone else. That's why this place exists and I think it's important to remember that.
 
I agree that a lot of fpl claims are do to outside influence. People read, saw pics or movies about a famous person and then they may dream that they are that famous person therefor thinking it could be their pl.


I know that there are cases where it's the other way around. A person has dreams about a person, places and even names years before any possible outside influence. Then that person by chance see's a non fiction book immediately recognizes pics of the person, places and even names from the dreams as a very young child who ends up being a famous person from the past.


In this case, it would not be an ego thing at all. It would simply be just another pl experience, that ended up being a fpl.
 
To the original question as to why claim a famous past life...it may be that the claimant has some sense of resonance for that previous lifetime...and the named people from that era may be the claimant's only understanding of that time or era.


I also believe there are as many reasons for claiming famous lives as there are people claiming them.
 
I'm glad that you were brave enough to share your memories, mnrjp. It takes courage to do that, and I can tell it wasn't egotism in your case. It's understandable when people don't want to discuss "notable" FPLs on the forum. We may be relatively open-minded, but there are still some strong opinions. Have you had any new memories?
 
I do have a few memories like how "I felt what I looked like". If that makes sense. Sometimes I feel like I remember things when I see certain pictures but I try not to jump to conclusions, because of the possibility of it being a "fabricated memory."
 
It's true that way more people than you would expect who remember past lives remember "famous" past lives, but I do think that people who were famous in past lives would disproportionately be more likely to remember them.


First of all, there would be more reason to remember them. Famous people probably take on more karma than non-famous people simply because they influence more people's lives. For example, I remember fighting in the Jacobite uprising of 1745, on the side of Bonnie Prince Charlie. Unfortunately the uprising was put down, BPC fled Scotland and left all his supporters in the lurch. I doubt I ever met him personally but I suffered greatly due to the war and was *very* upset at BPC about this, so much so that I cursed his name just before I died. I don't think it's an accident that I met a guy who claims to be the incarnation of BPC on this very forum ... I was given a chance to apologize to him and rescind my curse. After all, it wasn't his fault that I had suffered because of the uprising, it was in fact a life experience that I had chosen to help teach me about the nature of war. But anyway, the point I'm trying to make is that famous past lives effect a disproportionately large number of people, so it stands to reason they would have more reason to remember past lives.


Also, remember the lyrics to "Fame"? ("I'm gonna live forever ... remember, remember ...") That kind of motivation is built into the kinds of souls who want to be famous. Plus I'm sure you have to have a lot of psychic energy in order to get famous in the first place, and I imagine one needs to have a lot of psychic energy in order to remember past lives. That's one side of the story ...


On the other hand, people recoil from uncertainty and if you remember past life details that resemble a life that's already been well recorded, you're going to be tempted to fit what you do remember into a framework that's already complete. So that's a trap ... plus I've heard that on the "other side" you can look up other people's lives and it's just like living it yourself -- like the ultimate biographic movie experience. If I'm mixing up what I actually lived in a past life and a famous past life, it's probably due to something like what I just described.
 
Thank you for your service to the "bonnie prince", Jody. He did leave a trail of destruction in his wake. I seem to remember going to the battlefield at Culloden after it was over, keening, and searching for the dead. I had my plaid over my head, and the women and children who searched were like sad ghosts. Like most people, it's hard to be sure the memory is mine. In any event, it tears at my heart. I think it's interesting that you were able to meet Charles Stuart on the forum, and forgive him. That's an example of "balance" at it's best. Human bitterness is so difficult to release, even if the things we suffered were for our own learning. Maybe you will get to forgive the Romanov's executioners, mnr, if you haven't already. I'm sure they need it!
 
BriarRose, when you wrote about searching for the dead at Culloden, my eyes started to fill with tears. I know that some of those bodies you were searching though were my friends.
 
I felt it, too, Jody. The wild grief was there. The poor doomed souls, fighting for a cause that was lost before the battle started. I think we know little of battle now - the reality of what it was, with the blood, and the screams of dying men and horses. That is not to denigrate the sacrifices of those who die in modern warfare - the grief and pain are the same. But this was "my" grief and pain, as it was yours.
 
Maybe you will get to forgive the Romanov's executioners, mnr, if you haven't already. I'm sure they need it!


I can forgive them because they were only doing what was required of them. It's to my understanding that 2 of them couldn't go through with it, so they were replaced.
 
To find that ye only lived, died and were buried under the cherry tree in Grandmother’s garden does not make thee one whit better neighbor, citizen, mother or father! But to know that ye spoke unkindly and suffered for it and in the present may correct it by being righteous – that is worthwhile!


-Edgar Cayce
 
Welcome to the forum, LittleBobby. I can see that you are a Cayce fan. I have been exploring his work, also. I'm sure many other members are interested, and we look forward to reading your posts.
 
One might observe that if one in 10,000 people are famous, then the probability after 10,000 lives is that one of them will be a famous one.


I might also observe that there is no reason (besides that it sounds funny) that a life could not be a composite of more than one soul, just as there is no reason that all past lives must be linear in terms of time.
 
I agree that a past life is a past life; weather famous or not. I feel that people who may have had a fpl, would treat that pl as any other, weather it's Princess Dianna or just Jack Simpson the hobo.


I know that some people that feel they had a fpl, will use the forum for advise and try not to reveal who they may have been so it's treated like any other pl.


Unfortunately when other people ask questions about someones pl, they feel they have to reveal who they may have been as to explain their situation. As a result, doubts are raised and the fpl does not get addressed as just a regular pl, thus the claimant doesn't get unbiased opinion.


I also feel that people come to forums like this do be able to talk about their deep secret of having a pl because they can't talk to their friends about it; especially a fpl.
 
I think that it's also possible that the forum would attract a higher than average number of FPLs, for precisely the reasons mnrjp stated. It would be hard to talk to friends about an FPL - even harder than it is to discuss regular PLs. And, it's also an interesting thought that to the FPL poster, it's just a regular life!
 
It's mostly Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Part 1


[Disclaimer: I remember two famous past lives.]


I wrote the article cited at the head of this post more than ten years ago. I've learned a few things since then.


For instance, someone--and I can't remember who, else I'd credit them--wrote a very interesting thing somewhere on the net about false claims of famous past lives: they're an extreme form of fandom. The claimant so admires the historical figure that they can’t resist owning him or her. I'd never thought of it that way before.


But my main point in this post is that I unknowingly played down what I now consider the main reason for fake famous past life claims, in point 5:

5) Delusion caused by a mental disorder that can produce grandiose claims of all sorts, for example schizophrenia.
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A couple of years ago, for personal reasons to do with a relationship, I studied in detail Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD). This is the mental illness whose symptoms include, to quote from the mental health field's guiding text, Diagnostic Standards Manual (DSM) 4th edition:

1. An exaggerated sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
2. Preoccupation with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
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Reincarnation offers the perfect vehicle to play out such fantasies and delusions, as it provides the cover of conceivable plausibility. You can't claim to be a millionaire when the bank has your balance on record, or a household-name entertainer if few people know your name. But if say you were Kleopatra, no one can actually disprove it.


So what, when NPD, being so weird, must be rare? Well, another thing I learned in my research is that it is actually common. That's been confirmed by my experience. Since I have learned to spot them, I have found one blood relative who had narcissistic tendencies, an ex who is a full-blown narcissist, one narcissist on each of three boards of associations I was involved with (until they got kicked off) and others among ex-friends and acquaintances.


--


DIGRESSION: How to Spot a Narcissist on the Board of Your Organization


1) They come out of nowhere, usually newly-joined.


2) They claim great accomplishments and impressive success in business and media, but their Internet presence doesn't match up. (Google is a great weapon against narcissists. You can catch them stealing others' work in seconds: copy a few sentences of something they claim to have written into the Google search box, hit enter. Presto, bust-o!)


3) They are very charming and impressive, full of apparent expertise and expansive, inspiring ideas.


4) They dominate conversations and express little interest in others' ideas or appreciation for others' contributions.


5) They run for or seize important positions despite not having experience on the Board or even in the organization. (Especially Treasurer.)


6) They react badly when challenged or questioned.


7) They sow discord and blame everyone but themselves for problems even if they were entirely or partly at fault.


8) They ask for or award themselves extravagant perks.


9) They are obsessed with status and relate to others not as equals but as either superior or (when superior is not an option) inferior


10) They lie.


11) They claim that their presence will bring the organization unprecedented benefits.


12) They are drama queens.


13) They engage in fraudulent activities: financial irregularities, plagiarized information, etc.


What to Do: get them off your board as soon as humanly possible, before they cause chaos and weaken your organization. You cannot reason with them. The big problem with narcissism is complete lack of empathy. They don't care about the organization. They care about absolutely nothing but themselves.


Digression over. May this be of benefit.


Continued...
 
It's mostly Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Part 2


So, how to tell the difference between someone legitimately claiming a famous past life, and a narcissist faking it (which they can do either consciously or subconsciously, btw)?


First you have to understand how they think—that they are actually opposite to what they seem. They have such low self-esteem that they have to completely hide from themselves that they do and instead put up a fake persona that seems super-impressive or perfect to compensate. To them, being considered important and impressive seems like life and death, so that nothing else matters to them—hence the lack of empathy. They want only one thing and they are totally addicted to it: attention from and significance to other people—positive or negative. One case given on this excellent website about love relationships with narcissists (very short version: DON'T) was of a man who felt proud and happy after his girlfriend committed suicide because that proved he was important to her. Significance and impressiveness to other people is the only thing that matters, so they will do anything to get it—lie, cheat, steal, manipulate... whatever.


So—how to apply all this so as to spot a narcissist making a famous past life claim? Here are some signs:


1) Playing up the famous past life. They’ll talk about it to the exclusion of other topics and repeat the name incessantly, make it their Internet identity, seek fans, minions and worshippers, have ambitions of becoming famous through books or movies about their famous past life (with other people doing all the work). This is all about attention.


2) Demanding special treatment due to the famous past life. See diagnostic criterion #1 above.


3) Lack of desire to substantiate with verifications, lack of research, hostile reaction to people asking for substantiation. This is because learning their own truth is not what it’s about for narcissists. It’s just about impressing.


4) Idealizing the famous past life, pretending the past persona had no faults, having no negative emotions about it or from it. This is an extension of the standard narcissistic practice of pretending they themselves have no faults and all problems are caused by other people.


5) Deriving no healing benefits or increased self-understanding from researching past lives. Again, that’s not what it’s about for them.


6) No struggle about accepting the reality of the famous past life, no self-doubt or worry that they’re crazy or making it all up. Because they are.


7) Lashing out at skeptics. This is a form of the narcissist’s standard inability to handle criticism.


8) Lying and plagiarism re past lives.


9) Lack of interest in any reincarnation topics that aren’t about them.


...and probably a few others I'm forgetting. But you can see the pattern.


So, if you've noticed these things before... you know what you're looking at.


Note: narcissists are masters of deception, and can cover these tendencies up by pretending to be concerned about verification, pretending self-doubt, pretending interest in other things, etc. (In fact any narcissists reading this are probably filing the points away to use as a deception checklist :rolleyes:) However they will show their true colours sooner or later. True, authentic, reciprocal relationships with other people, of which they are incapable, they ultimately cannot fake.


I am now of the opinion that because reincarnation is such a good vehicle for NPD's particular form of fantasy and delusion, and because it is common, NPD accounts for the vast majority of false famous past life claims.
 
I was not famous nor did want that much attention.


All wanted to do is sing I didn't care how


many people were there. If they enjoyed my singing


fine if they didn't fine as well .


Some people do come back from a person


who was famous , but do they want be be famous?


Have same problems as they did in that past


life that is the question.
 
And now, about real FPLs


Basically, you'll see us around any reincarnation community where we aren't treated like what on this forum is bound to come out as four asterisks. Yes @mnrjpf et al, absolutely we are desperate for conversation about it with fellow reincarnationists, like anyone else with PLs, because many of our "real world" friends aren't. (And I gather, reading back through the posts again, you're not just hypothesizing.) And yes, Briar Rose et al., it is indeed harder because it's an FPL. Even seasoned reincarnationists are more likely to look at you funny.


Re treating an FPL like any other PL--absolutely you do, in the sense of regressing, getting verifications, looking for ways it affects your current life for healing purposes, using it to grow your self-awareness as a soul living a series of lives, etc. You are looking, as your regressionist will instruct you, for events that are significant to you, and some FPLs (especially those that involved power) tend to have more of them than usual, while others don't.


I'd say the big difference in working with an FPL vs. a regular PL is the difficulty in accepting that it's real. The more famous the PL, the more difficult. I first learned about my two in 2000, and the idea of not writing an autobiography for one of them didn't enter my head... for one thing, I had already attempted it in drawings as a young child, before being thoroughly stifled by parental and societal pressure. But I only started it in earnest three weeks ago. It took me 14 years, including a few in which I stomped away from the whole thing, determined to forget it, to accept the reality of it enough. And to be honest I'm still having trouble.


(Incidentally, I have no great urge to write about the other FPL. Thinking about why, I realized that I wrote my brains out in that life, and it's all still extant. (95% of it is totally irrelevant today and boring as drying paint, but it's still extant.) In the first one I wrote only personal letters; everything public I dictated or orated, and not a word remains except an official letter or two and paraphrases that are second-hand at best.)


@Jody re people who were famous before being motivated to be famous again: some years back when I entertained the notion of going public with my story (rather than presenting it just as a historical novel, when I returned to my senses), I imagined myself on a talk show, facing a host who said to me, "I think you're just an attention seeker." My plan was to answer, batting my eyelids, "It's soooo true... I'm just the same as I was back then!"


But the truth is, yes and no. I would say yes, for instance, for souls who so love the entertainment business that they come back to it again and again... in that business, attention seeking is a job requirement. But people have also lived lives in which fame did them no favours at all, leaving them inclined to do quite the opposite and resolutely avoid it in subsequent lives. As well there are many famous people who became famous through efforts that were not at all motivated by desire for fame, but pure passion for their work, driving them to excel so much they became famous as a byproduct.


@Nightrain, re respecting people for what they're doing in this life rather than PLs: for sure. People who are doing nothing in this life who claim FPLs always raise my suspicion.
 
Since the very beginning, I always loved to read your articles about FPLs Karen *Thumbs up* (Looks like the smiley was removed)


Let's also not forget that not all FPLs are "famous" like a superstar, and also, some of them who were famous as a superstar did not experience fame in life but after they died.
 
I have no famous past lives that I remember but if I can be the girl next door why can't someone else have been the famous girl next door? Someone had to have that life.


I don't feel anyone has the right to attack anyone for who they believe they might have been. It goes against everything this forum has been for many years.
 
I've had people write me some nasty emails telling me I can't be who I say I am, despite some of those people taking part in religions where reincarnation is central to their faith.


It's also despite the fact that I openly blog about the criteria you're listing here; that is my research, my "proof" ( the burden of proof is much higher with a FPL), how its affected my life etc.


Its true.. Everyone at some point must become someone else. Famous or not, attention seekers don't need to be catered to and for anyone that truly seeks help and understanding, we should give it to them.
 
@Totoro, burden of proof


I for one find it very reassuring that a senior moderator on this site has an FPL and blogs about it openly. My hat's off to you for your courage.


Re burden of proof: problem is, there can be no absolute proof, since we're talking about an immaterial phenomenon, and absolute proof, as I understand it, basically has to be material. Someone can always say your and my verifications have alternate immaterial explanations--archetypal energy, cryptomnesia, ancestral memory, subconscious remote viewing, coincidence, all of the above in combination or what-have-you--and you can't prove them wrong.


This is in fact what drove me out of reincarnation inquiry for a while. I was raised totally materialist, skeptical and scientific, taught to distrust anything spiritual or intuitive, and old habits die hard. I got and wrote up tens of thousands of words of memories, even as part of me did not believe a word. What brought me back was relearning to trust and credit my inner knowing, and then getting strong and undeniable PL signals.


Thus I have come to the conclusion that the only person who you must either convince or disabuse is yourself, so as to have integrity in self-knowledge, by which I mean a non-delusional, hence healthy, picture of yourself. There might be reasons that you want to convince other people, such as going public to promote reincarnation or becoming a member of a group that has a set standard of vigour, but these are choices, not necessities. (If you feel it is necessary to convince other people so as to convince yourself, you have a problem, ranging from self-doubt/insecurity, which I used to have myself and still do to some degree, to full-blown narcissism. Convincing other people doesn't prove a thing anyway. Having a desperate need for confirmation from others but realizing there's no such thing (unless it's someone else who was there also remembering, and one should approach that with great caution) used to drive me nuts.)


Given this, I would say "burden of proof," or what I would call standard of evidential rigour, is a personal thing, and thus there is only a higher standard for an FPL if the claimant feels there is. I'm sure I do for myself, because one of my FPLs is more famous than the other, and it was relatively easy to be convinced of the less famous one. And yet, considering the care and effort I've seen people with perfectly average past lives put into their verifications, I don't know that there's a consensus that FPLs should have more evidence than non-F PLs, at least for convincing yourself. Part of what you are convincing yourself of is reincarnation itself, and that's going to be the same either way.


My .02.
 
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