Stargazerspok
New Member
Why do some people recall seeing Jesus in heaven and NDEs while others do not.
Why some people remember seeing Jesus while others do not
- Thread starter Stargazerspok
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tanguerra
Moderator Emeritus
Hi Stargazerspok
Welcome to the forum.
From what we know about this, from near death experiences and from 'life between life' regressions, it seems to be an individual experience and people see 'what they want to see'. Some people see various different religious figures, depending on their culture, from the Buddha, or Hindu gods. Some have even seen ancient deities. Some see friends or family. Some see deceased pets coming to meet them. Some see all these things and more.
I don't know why this is though. But it is what people report. Perhaps they see whatever they find most comforting at such a stressful time?
Welcome to the forum.
From what we know about this, from near death experiences and from 'life between life' regressions, it seems to be an individual experience and people see 'what they want to see'. Some people see various different religious figures, depending on their culture, from the Buddha, or Hindu gods. Some have even seen ancient deities. Some see friends or family. Some see deceased pets coming to meet them. Some see all these things and more.
I don't know why this is though. But it is what people report. Perhaps they see whatever they find most comforting at such a stressful time?
PastPilot
PastPilot
From Michael Newton's books on Life Between Life he states the same thing. He also adds that people returning to the spiritual realm are often still getting used to the change from the physical to the spiritual realm, which can cause confusion. He stated that many of his clients, when regressed, mistook their guides for Jesus because their guide appeared in a Christ-like glow, dressed in white. However this state did not last long and the person realized their mistake fairly quickly. They would mistake the guides for various religious figures depending on their previous religious beliefs.
There are other reasons listed in Michael Newton's books, but its better to just read his books. Michael Newton and Robert Schwartz's books are excellent references for Life Between Life discussion.
There are other reasons listed in Michael Newton's books, but its better to just read his books. Michael Newton and Robert Schwartz's books are excellent references for Life Between Life discussion.
tanguerra said:
dking777
Senior Registered
Hi and welcome to the forum.Stargazerspok said:
When you say 'some people' recall - are you referring to the testimony of people who have had 'near death experiences, or those who recall past lives?
I had my first full blown NDE at the age of six - and it was the first of many to come. My Mom remarked that it boggled her mind to hear me try and talk about the afterlife as a child - and then look down at my feet and see me with the wrong shoe on the wrong foot and my shoe laces untied. I didn't know how to read or write - but I had 'stories' I tried to piece together with a child's mind to express the unimaginable. I wasn't raised in a religious environment - so - I didn't reach for religious words to try and describe my adventure beyond.
When I was 8, I sat down with my Grandmother and told her a story of a man I knew of from my adventures by the name of Yeshua. When I started telling her about the life and times of Yeshua - she started telling me it sounded a lot like Jesus. I told her, "Grandma, I think that man knows his own name."
So, over the years when I hear or read about people having an encounter with someone from beyond, - I wonder why he introduced himself with the name the world gave him - instead of the name his Momma and Daddy gave him when he was born into the world.
Food for thought.
Sincerely,
DKing
SeaAndSky
Senior Registered
Hi All,
Newton is a great researcher in my mind because, to the best of my recall, he started out as an atheist and complete unbeliever in anything beyond the material. He has been forced to enter a new world and his books are excellent; however, he only gets as far as talking about "the light" and "the source" with the first being the radiant manifestation of the second. Both appear over and over again in the narratives of his subjects when they reach their normative between lives locale (which I will refer to as "Soul home"). Likewise, Newton acknowledges that though he believes that his subjects always tell the truth, they will sometimes fall silent and refuse to respond. So, whether there is more they are not telling him, and what that might be, remains in doubt. In any case, Newton still doesn't like to use terms like "God" or "Divine" or anything of that sort as far as I can tell; however, as a believer I find the implications inescapable in terms of God.
In terms of the subject of this thread, I can only say that Jesus (Yeshua) came to bring that light Newton's subjects talk about into the world and he is that light to his followers. According to scripture, he was the Light and Logos in the flesh, made manifest. Likewise, I have no doubt that wherever that light is found, he is there as well, even if unrecognized. Consequently, to the extent we, some historic religious figure, or some guide manifests that light, they are also manifesting--in some degree--what he was/is and he is present there to that extent. This is my belief, others may differ.
Other than that, I have to say that I am not sure of the initial premise for this thread. From all of the NDE's I have read, including those by Christians, one may be initially met by relatives, friends, or angelic beings (or guides)--not just Jesus. After that, and proceeding deeper/higher into the heavenly realms, I think the question becomes so complicated that it is difficult to discuss, particularly without offending. However, Paul describes a vision or trip to the "Third Heaven" and most religions believe that the heavenly realm encompasses various levels or planes. The idea expressed figuratively as "Jesus is at the Right Hand of the Father" would seem to indicate that he is primarily manifest at the very highest level though he apparently also manifests how and where he will.
I have never thought that the "soul home" described by Newton is as "high as it gets". So, though I see the Lord as normatively present there in the ways previously described, and also believe that he may well be even more present and accessible at that level than this, I think he is even more manifest at an even higher level. All I know is that all who truly seek him will one day surely find him. Once again, a statement of personal faith. Take it as you will.
Cordially,
S&S
Newton is a great researcher in my mind because, to the best of my recall, he started out as an atheist and complete unbeliever in anything beyond the material. He has been forced to enter a new world and his books are excellent; however, he only gets as far as talking about "the light" and "the source" with the first being the radiant manifestation of the second. Both appear over and over again in the narratives of his subjects when they reach their normative between lives locale (which I will refer to as "Soul home"). Likewise, Newton acknowledges that though he believes that his subjects always tell the truth, they will sometimes fall silent and refuse to respond. So, whether there is more they are not telling him, and what that might be, remains in doubt. In any case, Newton still doesn't like to use terms like "God" or "Divine" or anything of that sort as far as I can tell; however, as a believer I find the implications inescapable in terms of God.
In terms of the subject of this thread, I can only say that Jesus (Yeshua) came to bring that light Newton's subjects talk about into the world and he is that light to his followers. According to scripture, he was the Light and Logos in the flesh, made manifest. Likewise, I have no doubt that wherever that light is found, he is there as well, even if unrecognized. Consequently, to the extent we, some historic religious figure, or some guide manifests that light, they are also manifesting--in some degree--what he was/is and he is present there to that extent. This is my belief, others may differ.
Other than that, I have to say that I am not sure of the initial premise for this thread. From all of the NDE's I have read, including those by Christians, one may be initially met by relatives, friends, or angelic beings (or guides)--not just Jesus. After that, and proceeding deeper/higher into the heavenly realms, I think the question becomes so complicated that it is difficult to discuss, particularly without offending. However, Paul describes a vision or trip to the "Third Heaven" and most religions believe that the heavenly realm encompasses various levels or planes. The idea expressed figuratively as "Jesus is at the Right Hand of the Father" would seem to indicate that he is primarily manifest at the very highest level though he apparently also manifests how and where he will.
I have never thought that the "soul home" described by Newton is as "high as it gets". So, though I see the Lord as normatively present there in the ways previously described, and also believe that he may well be even more present and accessible at that level than this, I think he is even more manifest at an even higher level. All I know is that all who truly seek him will one day surely find him. Once again, a statement of personal faith. Take it as you will.
Cordially,
S&S
Eowyn
Wrought out of steel
As always, I think the problem is we always simplify things too much, as we're mere humans trying to understand what is beyond our comprehension. I pretty much agree with what SeaAndSky says in his post regarding "different levels". If we take this as a reality, it makes no sense talking of "the same heaven" for everyone. As for Jesus, I have my own beliefs about him, but I won't go further here.Stargazerspok said:
It's long since I read Newton's books and I had forgotten this notion, but I've realized this is just the same I'm trying to explain in my own "ultimate theory" (based on current scientific theories). I have the hypothesis that each soul has its own frequency of vibration, and after we die and consciousness expands we can only do it to the extent of that frequency. This immediately "puts" us in a "level", the one that corresponds to that frequency. This would mean there are different "Heavens" for each of us, just as Newton describes in his books too. In that heaven we would encounter souls with similar frequency of vibration, which could be the different soul groups. This would also explain why the descriptions of "Heaven" are so different.SeaAndSky said:
I've come to the conclusion that as we evolve through our own spiritual paths, our frequency increases (it's likely it could decrease too) and so we "ascend" in those levels, every time we die. This is what many spiritual teachings call "spiritual evolution". If we assume Jesus was a very experienced soul, it's just logical to think he would be in a higher "level" than most of us. I have no doubt he's possibly open and available to chat with us if we ask, but we must not forget that in a NDE or right after we die, we don't reach those higher levels, we're just confused in the lower planes of reality (which I call astral) and it's more likely we'll be deceived by someone who says they're Jesus, or we'll create what we want to see, depending on our own beliefs and desires.
Stargazerspok
New Member
I still have not gotten a good answer for my question. Why do some people see Jesus while others do not in NDEs? In heaven?
Eowyn
Wrought out of steel
1. Maybe there's not an answer.Stargazerspok said:
2. Maybe you haven't found the answer you want to hear. I think we have given you a bit of food for thought. And yes, KenJ's answer it's one of the best, IMO.
3. Now, I'll see if you can answer my questions:
- Why are you so sure it's Jesus what they see?
- Why do you assume there's a heaven?
- Why should Jesus be seen by everyone?
- Why would I want to see Jesus when I die? Maybe I prefer to see Santa Claus.
- Why would I need to see Jesus? Was he really someone special or just a man who got killed as millions of other people?
- Why do you assume people are in heaven when they have a NDE?
- Why do you think we should know the answer to your question? We're just humans like you (unless you're a robot), we have the same doubts and the same questions.
SeaAndSky
Senior Registered
Eowyn/Tang,
Very good posts to add to other VG posts on this thread. I'm beginning to wonder whether "Star" is a troll with an agenda rather than someone who actually wants to participate in a discussion with others. If not, he/she will have my apologies.
S&S
PS--Eowyn--no time for further discussion at the moment, but I'd like to follow up with you on some of your comments.
Very good posts to add to other VG posts on this thread. I'm beginning to wonder whether "Star" is a troll with an agenda rather than someone who actually wants to participate in a discussion with others. If not, he/she will have my apologies.
S&S
PS--Eowyn--no time for further discussion at the moment, but I'd like to follow up with you on some of your comments.
dking777
Senior Registered
From the age of six to the age of 18 - when people my own age asked who I saw on the 'other side' - , I would always tell them "Santa Claus." As a child - there was no other character in my young vocabulary or world experiences that came close to any sort of expression to the awe, wonder, joy and excitement the memory I had of this magical encounter.Eowyn said:
I was always told (during my NDE's) when I inquired about a name for this 'figure' that there wasn't a worldly name that was equivalent to the actual 'spiritual identity' of this one.
Fast forward to 1988 at the age of 28 when most of my childhood memories of experiences were repressed - and I had another NDE in front of 10 adult witnesses. They too asked who I saw on the other side - and at that stage in my life - I had my own personal 'moniker' that didn't fly with the witnesses. (Magic Rainbow man of my childhood dreams.)
I did find myself telling one of the witnesses that the closest thing that I could find to express it so -- other minds might relate to the magnitude of who it was I encountered - would be the "Legacy of Jesus" - but I was quick to say - that is not how I would express it to myself, nor did I feel it was an expression of the whole truth.
When giving testimony of something that is beyond words - your not expressing something for the sake of one's own mind. Your trying to trigger the minds of others.
It was easier as a child. When I mentioned the fact that I saw the 'real Santa' - my young peers eyes would light up like Christmas trees. It was easier to share an expression of joy and wonder. So for me personally - I can't wait to get back home and see the 'Real Santa Claus' ---- again.
Sincerely,
DKing
dking777
Senior Registered
My impression is the only person who can answer this question - is yourself.Stargazerspok said:
The most we can offer is our opinions and theories. Some of us may have personal experiences - but in the end - all we have to offer is opinions based on our experiences.
I have said it before and I don't mind saying it again. When it comes to truth pertaining to spiritual matters - there is only one you can trust with the right answer for the sake of your own personal curious mind - and that is God. Instead of trusting strangers on a message board with a question that your attaching a weight of importance to - you should trust God in your own personal meditations - and be patient enough to know that 'spirit' will led you to the answer in the future.
But then again - just my opinion on the matter.
Sincerely,
DKing