Emotions matter

[deborah]

A few thoughts for the day.

Meditation, dreams, spontaneous recall, and shared experiences are all valid and important ways to explore past lives. Beyond the different ways that past lives are experienced, my research and memories suggested to me that; what we hold in consciousness at the time of our death, determines our next life experience. Each experience (at least for me) surfaced because of deeply held emotions. I see a lot of posts based on the physical aspects of past lives and trying to find out who we were. But to me- the emotional component is much more important.

"A dying person's emotional and mental state will influence and, to some degree, control, his afterlife and rebirth pattern. Thought includes not only the heart which can be profoundly opened due to imperfections and suffering, but includes our entire state of consciousness.” ( A Journey With Elsa Cloud, by Leila Hadley)

Candace B. Pert, Ph.D. is a Research Professor in the Department of Physiology and Biophysics at Georgetown University Medical Center in Washington D.C. Her research regarding neuropeptides, which are chemical substances made and released by brain cells, and other cells suggests that in the body network, these information receptors serve as a form of communication for the entire body. In her book Molecules of Emotions she speaks in depth about her research, her journey and scientific methods, as well as her conclusions:

“We can no longer think of emotions as having less validity than physical, material substance, but instead must see them as cellular signals that are involved in the process of translating information into physical reality, literally transforming mind into matter. Emotions are at the nexus between matter and mind, going back and forth between the two and influencing both.” Molecules of Emotion. pg. 187.

To me this also suggests that emotions create a large portion of our reality. I am interested in thoughts regarding this. Please show examples if you can. Personal experience or researched information.

 

[Cloacina]

I believe people can have psychic connections with one another. I think two things that sometimes aids these connections are A. one or more of the involved people are particularly psychically gifted and B. the two people are very close emotionally. I suppose this might work to a degree, also, if we have strong negative feelings for a person, but I was talking of close emotions. Anyway, I would think that, if we are allowed any choice in the matter, and if we reincarnate, that those bonds might draw us to this people or help us locate them if we wanted to see them again. I do believe most people have some degree of psychic ability, so I don't believe someone has to be considered a psychic to form some degree of a psychic bond, even if the individual they have bonded with is also not considered a "psychic."


According to one study I read, women in love who had their brains scanned, showed more activation (than not in love ladies) in the emotion and memory centers of their brains. So, if feeling an emotion like this, is heightening their memories, then that woman is later reincarnated, it would seem that she might be more likely to recall PL memories of moments from times when she was in love, or perhaps more likely to recall the loved one.


Also, frightening memories, when not blocked out of your mind as part of a defense mechanism your mind is employing, are the types of memories that seem to get stuck in your head, sadly. In PTSD, these intrusive, horrific memories can cause flashbacks in which it feels like the event is happening all over again, if I understand correctly. Again, these are the things that are more likely to stick with people in their lives. So, they might also be the things that would follow someone if they had a future life.


I actually knew one guy who said his current life memories (he might have been referring to childhood memories only, but I can't recall for certain) weren't so much auditory, visual, etc. as they were emotional memories.


Also, emotional trauma has been shown to cause physical change in the brain. Plus, psychological illness can cause physical distress. So the emotional and the physical interact with one another. They affect each other. They aren't totally dissconnected from one another.

 

[SundayAtDusk]

Ah, still proposing that theory, are we, Deb-Tep? hug2.gif


I don't think I agree with it, but I also think possibly I do not understand what you are saying. Are you saying what one is feeling the last day, the last hour, the last minute of one's life is going to determine their next lifetime? If so, what if those feelings, those emotions have little to do with what one was feeling or thinking all the rest of the minutes, hours and days of one life? For example, what if someone who was loving and courageous and peaceful throughout most of their adult life was brutally murdered, and was filled with hatred and fear and rage when he or she died...would that person's next lifetime be determined by those negative emotions, instead of their usual positive emotions? If so, why should it be like that? Shock and physical pain can turn someone into something they usually are not, can fill their heads with feelings that are usually foreign to them. Or what if a person died after wasting away from a debilitating disease? Why should their feelings of meaninglessness at the time of their death determine their next life? Or, what if they died after being senile for years? What next lifetime would be the result of the feelings, the emotions of someone who is not in their right mind?


Also, the theory seems to suggest there is no in-between healing place or time between lifetimes. Do you believe that?


(Personally, I really don't know what I believe any longer!q6gif That's one reason I'm back.)*()

 

[deborah]

Hiya Sunday - long - long time ----no see! :butbut:cool I wondered if that was you *S*S


Nice to see you here again. I base a lot of my belief's in ancient texts and religions; science as well. As much as I can. I found that the Tibetan Book of the Dead presents the most comprehensive ancient POV but there are others. I tend to think they have a point based my research and what Ian Stevenson and others present. Really it works for any POV. Let me explain.


If our thoughts, what we hold in consciousness, determines our next ‘life experience’ then maybe this is why there are no set rules. Maybe this is why some souls are born into the same families, and some are not. Maybe this is why some souls do not reincarnate for decades, or even centuries, while others are born into another life almost immediately.


Each individual is unique, each individual sets his own way, by way of his/her thoughts, feelings and emotions. In other words, his or her consciousness creates.


It is not a last minute scenario - but one that reflects a life time.

 

[SundayAtDusk]

Deborah, okay, if you're saying it's the entire lifetime that determines the next lifetime, then I could not agree more. I thought you possibly were saying that how the person died, and what they were thinking and feeling at the time of death determined the next lifetime...which in some cases may be true, in my opinion...but certainly not in all cases. And I like the idea of there being no set rules. Whenever someone proposes there are rigid "rules" of some sort on metaphysical matters, I think they are simply trying to insist everyone agree with them...which is childish.


It's so nice to talk to you again!)*(

 

[Nightrain]

Re: Emotions Matter


Emotions...This is a subject that is quite often difficult for men to consider. However, to me, emotions are a measure of how much we are affected by experiences, like grief, war, embarrassment, joy or profound success.


Consider the behavior model many of us were taught back in the 60's -- That we are products of our experience within one lifetime, and that we are born into this world as a blank slate, a "tabula rasa".


Since then, we have discovered that genetics can play a part in whom we come to be. Taking into account the many cases of identical twins, who were raised separately and without knowledge of each other -- When compared to each other it is often the case that some of their behaviors and choices are exactly the same.


Evidence that is contrary to the tabula rasa model of behavior can also be found in experiments, which seem to indicate that all living things are capable of inheriting their parent's learning experiences without having contact with them. In other words, if one's parent or grandparent learned a skill, that child may somehow inherit their motor skills or may tend to follow in their footsteps.


Now, if we add our commonly held belief that past lives may collectively determine who we are, then the theory of tabula rasa is in error, and we should consider a different route to the meaning of life.


Here comes the quandry...


How do we explain changes in behavior as a result of medication, substance abuse, disease or injury? Many of us have witnessed emotional and behavioral changes after a patient's heart operation, or after a stroke, or at the onset of diabetes. And, nearly everyone has witnessed dramatic changes in behavior after someone has been drinking or drugging.


What part of our emotions and behavior, therefore, is actually our own choice? And, what part is caused by external conditions? Could we be merely a collection of chemicals, whose emotions have evolved only on the material plane?


Or, are we evolving spirits, who have chosen to be born in a material world, just as a student choosing a particularly difficult class? And like a student we sometimes choose more experience than we can handle?


If the latter case is true, then all the suffering begins to make sense and have purpose. And, the fact that most of us can't remember past lives also has purpose. If we know everything past, present and future while on the spiritual plane between lives, and we take that knowledge with us to the material plane, then choosing a life course wouldn't make any sense at all. It would be like cheating!


So, if we have known everything on the spiritual plane, why would we bother to be born in the material plane?


A possible answer?


I believe it is because there is one very important thing that we don't really know on the spiritual plane -- and that is "Emotion". The one thing that heavenly perfection lacks is the quality and experience of emotion, which can only be learned within a material existence, where there exists embarrassment, grief, disease, death and success. We can't experience joy and sadness on the spiritual plane.


Perhaps Shakespeare had it right, when he said, "The whole world is a stage." It is an arena, where we make mistakes and where we practice skills that can only be learned in this world.


Thanks for listening.


I just learned about the meaning of life by writing this.


Wow! Go figure!


-John

 

[SundayAtDusk]

John, may I first say I believe you are an extremely eloquent writer. You also remind me of a guy I know...may I ask, would you happen to be a Libertarian? (Moderators: Please note, I'm just curious about that; I'm not trying to start a political conversation. I don't even discuss politics off-line any longer.:tongue


Just to hit on two of your interesting thoughts:


The Blank Slate Theory: I dislike that theory because it is so often used to "condemn" individuals to a lifetime of one thing or another, because of their childhoods and their parents. The older I get, the more I cannot believe how people try to hold their parents--particularly their mother--responsible for all the bad decisions they have made in their own lifetime. That is one reason I really, really like the idea of reincarnation--the individual, not their parents, is responsible for his or her actions. (Although, I imagine, if reincarnation was a commonly held belief, there would be no shortage of people trying to blame their past-life mothers for everything!:butbut


All The World Is A Stage: Now, that theory depresses me to no end. That is one of the ideas I really disliked about Michael Newton's books--that we pick roles to play...and the people in your life who are, for example, doing mean things to you, may actually just be acting to see how their actions make you react. As far as I am concerned, if that is the case, we are all nothing but lab rats reacting to what other people say and do. In a sense, acting is lying...it is staged...so, it doesn't really matter how you react to such a lie...how you react to something that is staged. Do you see what I'm saying? Sometimes I think the world IS nothing but that type of stage, and that we all ARE actors...or reactors (aka lab rats)...and the idea of that leaves me feeling that life is absolutely totally meaningless. Not a nice thought.

 

[Nightrain]

You brought up some very interesting view points. Doncha' just love debates? That's what I miss about being in college. No one is afraid to bring up an interesting point; and criticism is constructive and not ego-driven. Well -- More often so, than in the working world where one's reputation and ego hinges on always being right.


Regarding Libertarianism, my first instinct is to say, I'm not a Libertarian; probably because the term was formerly identified with being Liberal or Socialist, especially during the 50's. However, I have since come to understand that Libertarianism promotes strong personal rights to life and liberty, and abhors government control; so, I guess you could say that I am a "closet" Libertarian.


I do understand your reservations toward the concept of this lifetime being just a stage. My approach, however, is from the direction of causality. Who's to blame for all the senseless suffering?


There was a long period, where I blamed everything on an all-powerful being. However, when I read about the concept of choosing one's situation and parents before birth, that "blame" did a 180 degree turn and stared right back at me as being the one who chose this life and it's conditions. Why? I suppose it is because suffering can either make us stronger, or it can leave us with a karmic scar. The choice is ours and ours alone.


This concept not only allows us to make mistakes, but it also enables us to forgive others for their mistakes. Have you ever noticed that people who are born with certain handicaps also possess much more tolerance toward others? If we realize that we are handicapped as well, there would obviously be more tolerance in the world. Of course there would still be war, pestilence, crime, death and suffering, but we would be more prone to forgive and accept these things as part of life. The issue of whoever caused these things really becomes irrelevant.


As uncomfortable as it sounds, I do believe that our purpose in this life is to gain wisdom and tolerance. These are qualities that can only achieved where there is suffering. I suppose that would make us seem like lab rats. But, I like to think that we are actually travelers passing through various neighborhoods and occasionally wondering, "What would it be like to live in that house, or in that person's shoes?".


There exists yet another aspect of experiencing difficult or harsh experiences, and that is the satisfaction in knowing we've "...been there and done that". I'm sure you've had many experiences that frightened the hell out of you. When you look back at those events, don't you often smile or laugh about it? And, don't you have more confidence in yourself after surviving those events?


Many of us have been somebody's "lab rat" at some time or another. Someone said, "I wonder what they would do, if I did this?". Whether we reacted appropriately or with embarrassment, is water under the bridge. What matters is that we, hopefully, learned a lesson. Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.


I often think of a story in a book entitled, "Bhagavad Gita". Our hero, Arjuna, is looking out at an enemy camp in the distance with regret and fear, because he knew and loved many of the people in that assemblage. At his side is Krishna, his most trusted advisor. Krishna, knowing what it was that bore heavily on Arjuna's mind, reminded him that history will not record his fear and hesitation. History will, however, record that Arjuna did the right thing and stood up for what he believed was right. And, if he, or those he loved, are killed as a result of the oncoming battle; there is no cause for regret. Because, this is only one of a thousands lifetimes. In other words, doing the right thing matters more than life, itself.


-John

 

[SundayAtDusk]

I agree with most, if not all, of everything you said, John. But let me try to explain more clearly what I dislike, if not abhor, about the "all the world is a stage" bit...and being "tested". I can easily believe we choose challenges and who we incarnate with in a lifetime, but, yet, I cannot believe:


1) We are on the "other side", in-between lives, choosing specific horrid things to happen to us, and making such arrangements for those things to happen...while some "loving" guide is encouraging us every step of the way. Now, if you decided tomorrow, here on Earth, to take some action that would lead to you being greatly injured or killed, you would be considered to be severly depressed, self-destructive or suicidal. And anyone who truly cared about you and knew of your plans, would do everything he or she possibly could to prevent your suffering, injury or death. So, how is it something on "the other side" is so wonderful and courageous, when it is just the opposite on the Earth? And personally, I think the reaction to the matter on Earth is a far saner, more caring, more loving way to be.


2) We choose others on "the other side" to injure us, or inflict us with some disease. I read a self-published metaphysical book last year that proposed just that. It had a story of a female soul--behaving like a mother, mind you--coaxing a shy, quiet male soul to badly injure her in their next lifetime together. He is resisting her suggestion, claiming he doesn't want to hurt her or anyone else. But she convinces him that hurting her will lead to soul growth for them both. And he will acquire no negative karma for his actions. Tell me that isn't a woman hater's ultimate fantasy! And yet, that is where such metaphysical ideas of "choosing" suffering leads to. You can use such ideas to condone violence against women; you can use such ideas to condone violence against children!


3) We choose people to incarnate with, who will be "acting" in a way on Earth that is not reflective of their soul growth from one lifetime to another. They are simply "acting" in a way that will help us grow spiritually. That was one of Michael Newton's theory in his second book. Two more advanced souls were going to incarnate with one not as advanced, so they could be his parents and treat him in a harsh way, so he could spiritually grow. I cannot accept that idea. If that idea is true, then all the world is a stage, and more advanced souls are actors, and less advanced souls are nothing but lab rats...being set up for a human growth experiment, being observed from "the other side". I can only accept the idea that we choose to incarnate with other souls, and how everyone acts or reacts reflects their genuine soul growth...nothing more, nothing planned and plotted and staged. If that's not true, then I believe life on Earth is unintelligent and meaningless.


And I'm not suggesting you believe any or all of the above mentioned theories. But I would like to hear what you or anyone else here in the forum thinks of them. If anyone does believe any of the theories, I would love to hear how you can believe in them. Because I cannot. And when I read such metaphysical ideas, I sometimes think it is time to go back to Christianity...without the metaphysics...or maybe study Orthodox Judaism...which I believe was one of my past life faiths.

 

[deborah]

Hi Sunday,


I have often questioned similar things and have to ask: Where did this "Pre-Planning" idea coming from? Does it have an ancient reference? Or is this a New Age-idea?


Nightrain1 - you posted some interesting thoughts.

In other words, doing the right thing matters more than life, itself.

Absolutely! I couldn't agree more. I'll respond more fully tomorrow evening.

 

[Karoliina]

Hello Sunday,


I believe in everything being about choice, but some of your examples are foreign to my personal belief system. They sound a little extreme, imo, but I don't think these things should be discussed in a black and white way.


I do believe we have a very different perspective, when we are discarnate. "We", ie. our essences ,simply have different priorities from us physical beings, and they are very hard to understand being human.


But that's just my opinion.


Karoliina

 

[Nightrain]

Re: Emotions Matter


I haven't had this much fun since my college philosophy classes!


However, one must admit that I do sometimes paint with a very broad brush, which I accept. I also admit that I often, thereby, overlook the pain that many have suffered, and underestimate how deep one's scars may reach. There was a time, if anyone suggested that the people, who killed my friends and brothers in arms, had arranged to do so before we were born; I would have gone bananas on them. The irony here is that the only way I could get past my hatred for God and Lyndon Johnson was to accept some of the responsibility, and realize that I came out of it as a stronger person.


In an attempt to answer the question regarding the source of the theory regarding our pre-birth choices, I would point to many of the books concerning Near Death Experiences. This theory was further enhanced by the very premise of this very website and Forum -- That being further enhanced by many of the children, who claim to have "picked" their parents.


There was one book, whose author escapes my memory, proposing that the smelly homeless guy we are passing on the street may have been a dear friend from a past life, who agreed to play that part in this next life. I believe it was written by the author who started out as a very abusive fellow. After having gone through a very frightening near death experience, he totally changed and became a minister and proponent for the after-life. I have to admit being very uncomfortable with this analogy, and still cannot believe that Hitler, Stalin and Pol Pot arranged their futures with all the lives they shortened. I do believe, however, that they are going to suffer as much as those they killed.


Clearly, I don't believe that the many abused women out there had a pre-arranged rendezvous with their abuser. Nor, can I accept that we would in any way have asked for our horrific experiences. I do believe, however, that we choose our parents, and are aware of the many possibilities that face us, whether good or bad. And, those of us who chose to abuse, will ultimately loose in the next life. We do have some choice in the matter; but what we should choose often becomes very muddy in an existential sort of way.


Karma combined with choice seems, to me, as the only way to achieve justice of any kind. Otherwise, many of us would exact justice on our own; and, thereby, become the very beast we are fighting. As for me, the temptation to exact retribution is very powerful. So powerful, in fact, that I don't think I'll ever gain anything in the next life. When someone I care about is attacked, I tend to counter-attack with the utmost speed and force; and I will be repaying my debt to karma for quite some time as a result.


Do I believe that my crusades were arranged beforehand? Of course, not. But, those who do harm to others are there in our futures, nonetheless. Furthermore, we have very little control in preventing some things from happening to us, for no matter how much we seal ourselves off from a cruel world, cruelty can and will find us in our hiding places. What we do have control over is whether we fight or accept what happens to us. This is at least my own conundrum, which I have yet to figure out. I find it very hard to just stand by and let someone be abused, and many times I've relished the art of payback. Rightly or wrongly, I still consider it a virtue, and turning the other cheek is only an excuse for weakness.


Please forgive me for going on like this. Being in this forum is very stimulating, and I have some very deep wounds of my own to heal.


-John

 

[stardis]

Hi Sunday.

... But I would like to hear what you or anyone else here in the forum thinks of them. If anyone does believe any of the theories, I would love to hear how you can believe in them. Because I cannot. And when I read such metaphysical ideas, I sometimes think it is time to go back to Christianity...without the metaphysics...or maybe study Orthodox Judaism...which I believe was one of my past life faiths.

Here are my personal thoughts on this subject, fwiw:


Like you, I reject the idea of planning our next lifetime so as to cause any kind of harm to others or ourselves. I don't feel that the Universe works in such a way as to be so complicated that everything must be planned ahead of time and that, instead, the Universe is quite simple and we goofy humans are the ones that impose this huge burden of rules on ourselves. I really believe the only things you need to accomplish when you incarnate are these well known commandments: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind." and "Love your neighbor as yourself.". Everything in life follows from these two sentences.


The enlightened people who have lived before us or who currently live among us, follow these two rules more successfully than those whose sojourn here has left a stain on the record of the "brotherhood of man". I believe that we aspire to do good before we incarnate and whether we are able to follow through on that is dependent, to a large degree, on the environment that has been prepared for us. I firmly believe that teaching children those two simple rules is the highest good, because they will in turn prepare the world for our own return and that cycle will continue until we are at harmony with the Source.


I believe that we do have a purpose for our life and, although I don't understand the "why" of it all, it has been presented to me on a personal spiritual level that our lives are important and that we are being helped to make the "right" choices.


Like Deborah, I wonder where the idea of pre-planning originates. There are many new age ideas that I don't have any confidence in. I know that I could "channel" a good book tomorrow and make some money from its sale, but that is something we should all abhor. We should demand something - I am not sure what - but some sort of consistent thread across the ages about what truth is and resist the temptation to accept anything new just because we are hungry for knowledge and spiritual direction.

 

[Cloacina]

About the origin of pre-planning- my opinion:


As John said, many kids who show signs of recalling a PL, have claimed to pick their parents. To me, if we are to take their PL claims as real, then why wouldn't we also take this claim as real? I do not believe in extensive pre-planning, either, but I suppose a couple things might sometimes be chosen or we might be allowed some input on certain things.


I'm not sure why an idea needs to be ancient to be valid. If I write a book today, it will someday be ancient if it survives time, but it won't necessarily be true and wise. I don't think something is more valid, because it is older. So, if some person claimed to have wisdom in the past, why should we automatically assume that this is superior to the claims of someone today? Why do we dismiss people who claim to have insight today, but accept that people in the past sometimes had spiritual insight? Besides, surely not all ancient texts agree on everything. And surely, they don't all contain every bit of knowledge that there is to have. So if they don't include pre-planning, but don't refute it, then to me, that doesn't suggest pre-planning isn't real. It could just be something that wasn't included, couldn't it? Also, if they do refute pre-planning, the ancient texts surely disagree with one another on certain things, so it seems to say, they aren't all infallible.


I believe there were ancients with wisdom. I also believe there are those alive today and in recent times, who have and have had wisdom. I don't believe that any normal human being, however- even a wise one- knows everything, nor do I believe they are 100% correct about everything they do think.


Again, I don't believe in extensive pre-planning. I won't get into why I don't believe in it, in this post, but perhaps later. I'm just saying that, according to certain children's accounts of being in between lives, some of them say they've picked their parents. To me, this is small scale pre-planning of at least one area in your next life. To me, this evidence is as good as another random person's opinion- whether that individual be ancient or modern day.


Anyway, I understand why people don't just readily accept some random person's opinion on something- especially if that opinion involves something that it is difficult to know through ordinary means (such as spiritual knowledge). I mean, I could tell you all any sort of BS and say it is spiritually inspired truth, knowing full well it's not- though I won't. But I could- any of us could. So, I agree that it is a good thing to be somewhat sceptical of these claims. However, I do not personally believe that ancient= accurate and new= absurd. I just take everything with a grain of salt. I also feel that the idea of pre-picking parents is more than one individual's idea, and it wasn't a sudden claim that they were randomly inspired to believe in. These stories are from multiple children, who still appear to recall PL's (if that is indeed what they are).


I think we might be able to pick SOME things, but I don't think we write a whole script. That is a personal opinion that makes more spiritual sense to me.

 

[stardis]

I think we might be able to pick SOME things, but I don't think we write a whole script. That is a personal opinion that makes more spiritual sense to me.

That makes sense to me also.

 

[Skarphedinn]

Hi Sunday,
I have often questioned similar things and have to ask: Where did this "Pre-Planning" idea coming from? Does it have an ancient reference? Or is this a New Age-idea?


Nightrain1 - you posted some interesting thoughts. Absolutely! I couldn't agree more. I'll respond more fully tomorrow evening.

I haven't come to find any ancient reference to this, but I have it read many times comming up in children's statements. I don't have firm belief in the pre-planning theory either, until I get first hand information. Whatever it is to make the choice, it is definately not the ego, but rather the Selbst as C.G. Jung would call it.


I like your approach, Deborah, this is the healthy skepticism we have talked about


Skarphedinn

 

[Rainbowseahorse]

I would like to recommend reading [ Courageous souls: Do we plan our life challenges before birth?] by Robert Schwartz. You will find cases about how our emotions in our past lives effect our life now and how we plan our current life according to past and unresolved emotions and unfinished business.


I believe we plan our life and it is not an accident that we are born in certain country and certain family. Accident could not bring our sister from past life to be our classmate, boss or neighbor. From my human standponit it is hard to understand how this all comes together and we are born in familiar soul groups, at that certain part of the world and how we all have different life paths but somehow we are all connected q6gif .


Carol's books: Children's past lives and Return from heaven have given me more confirmation of pre birth planning and every once in a while I love to go back and read them again as these delicate children's stories teach me a new lesson needed at that point of my life.


Just wanted to share, enjoyed everybody's opinions.

 

[SundayAtDusk]

John is right...forums like this are as fun as college philosophy classes...but this forum always was fun back when I was a member. Like Deborah, I'll get back this weekend.


Only, Rainbowseahorse, I just wanted to say I love your name...but I don't agree with your choice of books. The very book you mentioned is the very book I'm talking about--I saw it as a woman hating book that was trying to justify violence against women. And while I certainly don't think everyone should see a book as I do, I believe anyone who did not see hatred of women in that book has no knowledge of men who hate women...or is a man who hates women himself...or is a woman who hates herself, and blames herself for everything, including the diseases she gets or any acts of violence against her. Moreover, the fact it had "mediums" who could describe exactly what went on and was said during pre-birth planning session, was laughable beyond words. Actually, it wasn't funny; it was, in my opinion, a blatant case of someone trying to bring in "messages" from the spirit world to prove his view on life...while all the time claiming great surprise at the messages being received. That book was self-published twice under different names, and no reputable publisher has picked it up, as far as I know. If any reputable publisher ever does print it, though, I will never read another book put out by that publisher.

 

[Rainbowseahorse]

Well I did not see any hatred towards women in that book and I am not a woman hating myself, and I do know that some men hate women and of course women who hate men; but then depending on our life experiences and beliefs there are things that bother us so much and not our fellow humans; even in a forum like here. There has been other books or movies that others had a lot of good comments about them but they did not appeal to me and I even was offended by them.


It's like some people think of reincarnation as something opposed to God but then those who do believe in reincarnation they see more proof of God in it.


Sometimes we see the empty part of the glass of water and sometimes the full. We all have reincarnated again for a simple matter, love. Experience love in our limited bodies. All our life experiences are somehow connected to love.


Love you all

 

[SundayAtDusk]

Deborah, I imagine any "New Age" idea that has true value is rooted in some ancient belief. I think the belief is just being "adapted" for modern times. (In a similar way, many New Age writers seem to me to be "adapting", or putting a new spin, on the organized religion they grew up with, and turning their childhood beliefs into a New Age belief system; even when they are claiming they have long moved away from organized religion.) I can't remember the first time I read about "pre-birth" planning. I can't remember if Edgar Cayce spoke specifically about any type of planning, past the idea that you incarnate with certain people to be with them again, or to work out things with them.


I do remember Edgar Cayce was the one who said that you are "chained" to whoever you hate...and thus, will incarnate with that person in some future life to work out that hatred. But he never gave the impression that you were hobnobbing with them in the spirit world; and planning and laughing and joking with them about the next lifetime the two of you will share. That is what Michael Newton suggested goes on in-between lifetimes. And Karoliina, I agree that we probably don't have the same exact type of perpective in discarnate, as we do on Earth, but I can't accept there's that much difference. If there is, then we're back to the "world is a stage" theory, and it's all acting! For me, that belief is a type of horrid reductionism...it reduces the human life, the human experience to something much more trivial. It also reduces human suffering to something much more less painful than what most of us perceive it to be. It seems to me, the New Age world is either reducing suffering on one hand, or glamorizing and glorifying it on the other!


Stardis, I like to believe we all choose to do good in any upcoming lifetime...but I'm not sure that's true for every soul. I wish I was sure. I've reached the point, though, of believing that anyone who, if allowed, chooses to suffer in their next lifetime, just to experience suffering...or who chooses to cause suffering...is no different then those who choose the same things while alive on the Earth. Their motives are no different. It's a common belief that suffering helps one empathize with those who suffer...but in this point in time, are we to believe there are souls who have not suffered yet? And isn't, at least in the New Age world, the idea that we choose to suffer just a way of making us all powerful--we are all God. There is nothing we did not bring on or cannot control in our lives? I am guessing from your beliefs, Stardis, that you do not believe we are all God? I personally have never been quite able to accept that metaphysical belief.


John, Jesus turned the other cheek! But then, Jesus didn't have a wife and children to protect, did he? I am totally torn about non-violent resistance. Watching the glorious PBS documentary, "Eyes on the Prize", last month reminded me of that. I think it takes tremendous courage to practice passive resistance when you are being clubbed and beat up on. On one hand, I think that is the most God-like way to be. Yet, on the other hand, while watching people being clubbed and hit, I was thinking: "Call in the Army! Call in the Army!" Because that was the only way they were going to be protected. Blacks in America went on to gain so much from their acts of non-violent resistance. Yet, the Jews in Europe during WWII went on to the death camps, when they did not fight back. John, please consider starting a thread on your belief of reacting to violence with violence...and how that will affect one's karma in your beliefs. I guess I believe suffering is the result of bad karma, if we did not choose to suffer, while alive on the Earth in the specific lifetime in which we are suffering. Of course, you can often make something good out of bad...but I think we need to stop glamorizing and glorifying suffering.


To all who believe we choose our own parents, I believe we do. But I'm not certain all souls always make the best choices; yet, that is no excuse to spend a lifetime blaming one's parents, and acting like a poor victimized child forever. Unless one dies young, childhood is just a very small part of one's lifetime. And what I can't believe, however, is what I stated earlier--that two souls would choose to incarnate as our parents, with the intention of being a specific way, because it will do us good in the long run. That makes those two souls actors, not real humans, in my opinion. They are simply souls with roles.


Cloacina, yes, no metaphysical writer is totally right and knows everything. That is one of my biggest complaints, or biggest laughs, about certain metaphysical writers. They try to bring in "proof" from the spirit world to prove they are right. And many of them have hidden agendas, which often become laughingly obvious the more one reads. But like Skarphedinn, unless I have first-hand knowledge, I don't believe in something any longer...at least not totally.

 

[SundayAtDusk]

Rainbowseahorse, acts of violence aginst women are not acts of love. And men who think they are acts of love, or who think women want to be hurt, or who think they are just innocent little boys being unfairly blamed, are suffering from some very bad delusions.

 

[stardis]

Hi Sunday.

Stardis, I like to believe we all choose to do good in any upcoming lifetime...but I'm not sure that's true for every soul. I wish I was sure. I've reached the point, though, of believing that anyone who, if allowed, chooses to suffer in their next lifetime, just to experience suffering...or who chooses to cause suffering...is no different then those who choose the same things while alive on the Earth. Their motives are no different. It's a common belief that suffering helps one empathize with those who suffer...but in this point in time, are we to believe there are souls who have not suffered yet? And isn't, at least in the New Age world, the idea that we choose to suffer just a way of making us all powerful--we are all God. There is nothing we did not bring on or cannot control in our lives?

These are just my personal thoughts:


I think that we all plan to do good deeds and shower each other with Love, but we are human beings when incarnate and still evolving as human beings. It is our goal to bring the human race to enlightenment. I believe that evil is a human condition and not something that is endemic in the spirit world.


I have been going back and reading a bit about planning. I like how Brian Weiss said that while we may plan to be together or do something in our upcoming lifetime, we always have free will and the choice is ours whether we will stick to the path that we had intended. I believe his ideas come from regressions only and not his speculation about the between life condition - I am not an expert on this by any means so I may be wrong. However, I am going to go with Weiss because that seems reasonable and I see that in my own life. We are on a path - chosen by some means - but events in our life do give us the opportunity to change our direction and we always have the freedom to exercise our free will. During those moments of "opportunity", I think that there is a "right" choice based on what the greatest good for our own spiritual development is.

I am guessing from your beliefs, Stardis, that you do not believe we are all God? I personally have never been quite able to accept that metaphysical belief.

On the contrary, I do believe that we are all a part of God. I don't really think that we are God - even collectively - just each of us is a unique personality of the Source who the universe is sustained by. This is just my personal belief and I don't claim any special knowledge about our relationship with the Source.

 

[Rainbowseahorse]

Rainbowseahorse, acts of violence aginst women are not acts of love. And men who think they are acts of love, or who think women want to be hurt, or who think they are just innocent little boys being unfairly blamed, are suffering from some very bad delusions.

I do not mean acts of violence against women or anyone in that matter are acts of love; What I have come to believe is that we incarnate to experience love as humans, since as souls we know exactly what love is, but it is kind of like when parents tell their children do not touch the stove, it is hot, it will burn your finger and if they are like me, want to know what that means so they touch it and they feel the hot and burning sensation. If they don't touch it they may just have an impression of how it would be like but not the first hand experience.


If I had not experienced all the pain, sadness, problems that I have had, I would not have chosen this path of learning in my life and probably would not have come across reincarnation, self help, and all the books that I have read and I may not have been open to explore all the possibilites and would not have learned as much as I have now and still am.


I've had poor vision, had to wear glasses, hyperhidrosis[ excessive sweating, ulcers at age 14 that was very painful] and a childhood full of stress because of different religion parents, that was and is a taboo where I am from and all the stress and problems that came with it for my family and me, so I always wondered why, why am I so unlucky to be born like this and suffer so much. That led me to discover and learn and all these don't seem so painful now, yes I still cry remembering some things, as I am now but I have become a stronger person, more understanding and ...[ sniffle, sniffle...deep breaths] and am a more forgiving person because I don't see everything as just good or bad, there are things I do not see, like I don't know when someone is mean to me, why they act that way, have they had a bad day, just lost their job, got dumped, or?!!!, so I ponder about the lesson for that moment, is this a sign for me, am I supposed to learn something from this situation, or this person just needs some love and light rays sent from me towards them?


I know that I have come a long way from where I was, and all this has been because I wanted to understand the reason behind all the problems, negativity and all the happenings that we humans call bad, but from the other side after our death may not seem that way.


I have also remembered being burnt at stake, and also different kinds of burning in my past lives and even though they do sound horrific and I would not want anyone experiencing anything like that, but seems like no harm has been done to my soul, I have carried physical and emotional scars and am doing my best to solve them, but soul is eternal and no harm is done to the soul from all the abuse, trauma , disease, and anything bad we experience on earth or anywhere[ This is what I believe]. Our souls survive and what is carried over to next life is the baggage of unlearned lessons that is surfacing and telling us that I want to be resolved, and until we do, it keeps bugging us, until we do understand, if not this life, maybe next, or the next one after!!!!.


Of course I still cry and get bothered from all the bad things done to humans, but then I am on earth and can't see the whole picture from all aspects, and don't know what everyone's lessons are, so yes it is hard to understand how everyhting works, and I believe when I get to the other side, then I will understand everything and get better answers and better understanding from a broader view.


Hope this all makes sense, since english is not my original language and kind of feel like I have hard time explaining what I want to say.


So no, I do not believe acts of violence against anyone is act of love, and I do not see the reason behind everything that happens and can not judge.


I speak from my own life, and I know that I have gained so much because of all the good and bad in my life, and would not have read any of what I have, if I had a perfect life.


I even had the thought of killing myself because of all the emotional pain, and looking back now, I just see them as steps of staircase towards improvement.


I do not believe we need to suffer to grow, and hope I do not sound that way, but I am not God, I am a human on earth, and not the other side and can not explain why there is so much disaster, illness, phisical problems, death, torture ...


I hope when I do go to the other side I will see and understand all aspects, but while I'm here I would like to grow, and learn and not get stuck on negative aspect of everything and beat myself up because of something.


Of course it may be hard for me to understand why some parents have children with physical needs, or why children are abused but I do not know all the past lives they have been through, I only see the surface, the suffering, but I do not actually see what their soul is learning, or what they are teaching others. I do my best , pray for good to come out of every situation, and some day on the other side this will all be clear.


Maybe this would be a good topic for a new thread? Do you think you are a stronger person because of the difficulties you have faced in your life?or Do you think you have more knowledge and are more advanced because of your problems? Moderators? Any suggestions? Any better way to post this question?

 

[SundayAtDusk]

Rainbowseahorse, all that you said did indeed make sense, and you described your feelings very well. Please do start a new thread, if you wish, on suffering. It will be interesting to see if most members who post see it in a positive light, a negative light or both.


Let me just explain briefly my main problems with the book mentioned. In reading metaphysical books, I'm seeing books that are trying to promote amorality. Of course, the idea of amorality is nothing new in the metaphysical world. But I'm beginning to think that those who strongly promote it...just like those I personally have known who believe in it...are actually people who have done or are still doing shameful things, that they wish to feel no shame about--such as being violent against women, doing unspeakable things to children, etc. And when you have a book that has a woman, as a soul in the spirit world, planning some extreme act of violence against herself, and basically pleading with a male soul to be the one to hurt her...I think that is sicker than sick. And you have to slam the door shut in the faces of such metaphysical writers.


Stardis, I think going back and reading Brian Weiss' books is a good idea. I remembered I basically clobbered Dr. Weiss in a review on his last book, which I have always felt guilty about...because I don't think he deserved to be so clobbered! But I was at a point in my metaphysical studies where I no longer believed things like I once did...and was growing quite fatigued of the same ideas just being repeated over and over...and Brian Weiss' book just happened to be the next thing I read when I was in that state of mind. Much later, after I read his final book, I had a dream about him, and about a terrible, dark mental hospital. And I woke up thinking: Of course his methods and ideas of past life regression are far better than the methods and ideas of that dark mental hospital!


Oh, I believe we are a part of God, too. I just can't believe we are all powerful like God. No one I have ever met who likes to claim we create our own reality has anywhere near a charmed life. So, why do they not create a much better life for themselves, if they are creating their own reality?

 

[Karoliina]

No one I have ever met who likes to claim we create our own reality has anywhere near a charmed life. So, why do they not create a much better life for themselves, if they are creating their own reality?

What would we learn then? I believe that a soul does not have the same criteria for a "good life" than a human does.


Btw, my life is pretty charmed.


Karoliina

 

[Truthseeker]

Oh, I believe we are a part of God, too. I just can't believe we are all powerful like God. No one I have ever met who likes to claim we create our own reality has anywhere near a charmed life. So, why do they not create a much better life for themselves, if they are creating their own reality?

We are all created in God's image and likeness (or so I've been taught ). Are we the totality of God? Not even close, but we are still immortal beings nevertheless. God is the creator of the universe, but we are the creators of our own journey, imo. That is why no two journeys are alike. Actually, I think it's better to use the term co-creator, because your reality is a combination of yourself, those around you, and the world at-large. If two people are having a conversation, they are co-creating that moment.


Our process of creating is imperfect because we are imperfect, and we have free will. Personally, the life I was born into was great. I suppose I could have been born into a wealthy family, but I don't think that would have helped me on my journey (quite the contrary). I've had down times in this life, but they're the results of the choices I've made, not the life I was born into. If my life is an accumulation of the choices I've made, then I guess I did create it.


I agree with Karoliina. What our Higher Self and what our human self consider a 'good life' are probably two very different things. :thumbsup:


I don't know if I'm right or not - just throwing in my two cents.

 

[deborah]

Getting back to the thread topic;

Beyond the different ways that past lives are experienced, my research and memories suggested to me that; what we hold in consciousness at the time of our death, determines our next life experience. Each experience (at least for me) surfaced because of deeply held emotions. I see a lot of posts based on the physical aspects of past lives and trying to find out who we were. But to me- the emotional component is much more important.

Do any of you see that the emotions, thoughts and/or feelings from your previous life - led you to, drew you to or even caused you to choose the life you are in now? Can you give examples?


Sunday - I agree, accidents and situations happen. It's how we choose to deal with, act and react that I think


is the determining factor for next life scenarios. (I am on break at school...just posting a few thoughts for now. )

 

[Truthseeker]

Do any of you see that the emotions, thoughts and/or feelings from your previous life - led you to, drew you to or even caused you to choose the life you are in now? Can you give examples?

I do have an example. It's not from this life. It's from my previous life and the life before that.


Two lives ago I was a German soldier during WWII. Was killed fighting against the Americans on the Western Front. At the time of my death, I was confronted with the reality of how terrible and destructive war is. I came back in my next life as an American hippy chick during the anti-war movement of the Vietnam War era. I went from being soldier fighting against the Americans to being an anti-war American. I don't think that was a coincidence. It makes me wonder how many of the war protesters during Vietnam were reincarnated WWII casualties.

 

[SundayAtDusk]

Aha, Karoliina! You are living a pretty charmed life! Why in the world did you choose that sort of life? What possibly could you be learning? You should be SUFFERING!


Seriously, I think we have gone from trying to find meaning in our suffering...or from trying to believe we control our own destiny...or from trying to disprove the frightening idea that some things in life might actually be random or accidental...to glamorizing and glorifying suffering...to making it seem that a life without suffering is a life without meaning. And part of the metaphysical world would have us believe we ourselves are choosing all the bad things that happen to us; unlike the old organized religion way of thinking that God is testing us or punishing us, or the devil is out to get us. In my old middle age, I just can't accept any of those ideas any longer. If bad things happen, I now personally believe it's karma. And as others have said, we have the freedom and choice of how we react to any bad things that happen.


Truthseeker, you described pretty much exactly how I see God and the lives we are living. Thanks. It would have taken me hours to think about and express what you said. And I've read in at least one, if not more, reincarnation books that the hippies and war protestors of the 1960's were indeed so many of the souls killed so young in WWII. $P$ I think it may have been Gina Cermina who said it first...at least from the books I've read, but I'm not sure.


About creating our own realities, though...what I was actually referring to is the idea that we can create our own reality here on Earth. That our thoughts create it...much as the book "The Secret" proposed. I know people who believe that theory, yet they don't have the kind of life they wished they did. (And that would be an interesting new thread, if it hasn't already been discussed here lately.)


Deborah, sorry, I didn't mean to hijack the thread. Yes, I think I chose my current lifetime based on things that happened in my last lifetime. After I think about if for a while, I will post examples.

 

[Karoliina]

Aha, Karoliina! You are living a pretty charmed life! Why in the world did you choose that sort of life? What possibly could you be learning? You should be SUFFERING!

I believe this is a rest period after a couple of pretty stormy liftimes. But of course it's not all easy and wonderful... It's just that I've been blessed with many good things and loving people around me, and I try and remember to be thankful for that, not complaining about little things.


There certainly are lessons to learn this time, too, but I think they are more about my own inner choices and values, "self karma", than about dealing with other people ("normal" karma).

If bad things happen, I now personally believe it's karma. And as others have said, we have the freedom and choice of how we react to any bad things that happen.

I agree with this to some extent. I don't think all the bad things in life are due to karma, but yes, I also believe that some are. And like you, I believe we can choose ourselves how to react. We might feel pushed to a direction, but we can always change that direction, if we choose to.


To answer Deborah's question, I'm sure many times my previous incarnations have affected my following ones. In so many ways, it's difficult to think about simple, clear examples.


But my most recent past life was very different from this one, very difficult in many respects, losing my family and my children. This time around I've lived a pretty sheltered and easy life, and I'm definitely a family person. My parents, sisters and children mean the world to me, and I would never leave them.


Karoliina