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Famous people

Hi Nightrain,


I never excluded the simultaneous existence of free will and destiny in our lives or being. Letting the extent of proportion open.


I believe it's not impossible one takes an entirely different path. That would mean a temporary flight from destiny...if that's possible. Or it may even be incalculated.


Just thinking...but...will the group allow this? Will the soul not get lost? Then it's pure individuality and/or bad teamwork. That would dysfunction the soul group. And can a soul avoid the stream? I believe only temporarily on this plain...
 
As you know, I am not able to lay claim to any kind of expertise; so, please consider any point of view merely as grist for the mill. I know that your view was not one sided in any way, and that the question of free-will vs. destiny varied with Suzie by only a few small degrees.


I'm also clearly not in a position to know how spirit guides and fellow returnees interact with each other; but I would suspect that it is all done by harmonious consensus. It's hard to imagine such an august group having any disagreements while visiting the afterlife. However, based on some of the things I've read, it would appear that straying from one's path during one's lifetime is possible. Citing cases of suicide, it seems that people often do go off course.


What confuses me at the same time, is that it also seems possible for some people to predict the future. Citing documented cases of psychic detectives who predict how and when a victim's body will be discovered is one type of example. So, obviously, there appears to be room for destiny in our lives as well.


Clearly, these and other examples seem to pose irreconcilable contradictions, which some "experts" have attempted to solve by using the paradigm of a holographic multi universe. I don't understand how it would work, but it's clear that there exists a logical contradiction between free-will and destiny. Both exist, somehow, on the same plane when they shouldn't. So, there must be something going on within our own plane of existence that can't be explained within our frame of reference.


-Nightrain
 
:coffee::coffee::coffee:


Overseas,


It's okay to agree to disagree, we are not here to convince one another. We are here to exchange ideas. Neither of us is right or wrong, we just see things a little differently.


I guess destiny is all in the eye of the beholder-- sure, I've had experiences where something just feels meant to be. Well, if it feels that way, then surely things have worked out the way that leaves me feeling satisfied with the outcome. But, I have a hard time believing that I have a destiny where I have to do something, or will die at a certain at certain place, will marry just a certain person, etc. If there is such a thing as destiny, along the lines of blueprinting or pre-planned lives, then I believe our free will always takes precedence.


Nightrain,


Yes, the Holographic Universe is what I am talking about, along with What the Bleep... Both are excellent examples of how we always have infinite possibilities in our lives, that there really are parallel universes. All time exists in the here an now, all lives are in the here and now, even though we have lived past lives, what is most important is this life at the present time.
 
Interesting conversation. On one hand I like to believe we have total choice in our lives, but on the other hand I think we choose our parents, and basic circumstances before we are born. I see it as kind of like choosing a college class. We know what subject we are going to study, and we may even have an overview, but we don't know what lessons may come up until they are introduced, and sometimes lesson plans can change along the way.


I am not really comfortable with the thought that we are just randomly thrown into a life without any reason. But I am also not comfortable with the thought that almost everything is planned out for us. So I guess I believe there is a basic outline that we create before birth, but we are free to write the story as we wish while living it.
 
I have also been following this with some interest.


Personally, I am more inclined towards the "free will" school of thought (as it were), but I also do believe there is some pre-planning before birth.


A good analogy is that of a video game. In many modern games, you get to select a character and, in the case of some titles, you are also given the option of defining that character's attributes which, in turn affects how that character behaves. However, the outcome is still entirely in your hands to a larger extend.


Therefore, the way I see it, certain factors are pre-planned, but once we're "out there" it can go any number of ways. Either way, many of the cases I've read also suggest that both free will and pre-determination can co-exist so I do not necessarily see it as a case of either/or. That said, I do not think we should underestimate our capacity for choice. Without it, all of this really is just (ironically) a game.
 
As my own hyperbole addition to Plato's Allegory of the Caves, I have compared our pre-incarnation choices to an allegory in which we tour various cave sites from the outside before choosing our life experience. In your travels through different parts of your world, have you ever wondered what it would be like to live in that villa, this apartment or that cave? As you sit in your vehicle with the rest of your family and friends, have you ever had such a discussion in which you passed by some interesting landmark, wondering out loud that it might be an interesting place or time period to live?


I sometimes wonder, if such a scenario is possible before birth, in which we might share our curiosity with friends, family, and spirit guides. Perhaps, as we observe certain cave entrances from the outside, we discuss what mysteries may lie within. We may have some knowledge of what lies within each cave experience, but we don't really know how it feels to be born and to live there. What we anticipate could only be as superficial as reading someone else's story, but we don't really know what it is like without personally experiencing the story itself. So, we discuss the possibilities with others in our group; and, perhaps, finally agree that we'll come together at one general address for the purpose of fulfilling our curiosity about that cave.


Under such conditions, perhaps, it is possible not to realize the depth of despair that we have signed on for; or, conversely, we may find that the whole experience is much easier than we could have anticipated. Whatever the case, we end up judging ourselves according to what we have learned. If we coasted through without difficulty, we may feel capable of dealing with more difficult caves in the future. If, however, we somehow managed to get through with great difficulty, we may feel it necessary to chose a less strenuous ordeal next time.


However, if we chicken-out entirely, we'll only have to keep facing not only the experience itself, but the social pressure of those who agreed to be here with us. It might possibly be like the feeling of one standing naked at the edge of a very cold pool as one contemplates jumping in, while trying to face the inevitable freezing splash of cold water along with the cries of encouragement from our peers. In fact, many people have compared their entry into physical life as being a cold and painfully shocking experience at first.


If, after we've been in this life for a while, we find that it's just too painful; we may consider returning home prematurely. To do so, we may try outright suicide; or we may simply decide to stop living and wait for death. However, in either case, we may find that we have left our soul mates and spirit guides behind, and realize that we have wasted not only our own opportunities; but we have deprived them of our love and support. It is one thing to return home, yet another to be home alone, when those we love are busy elsewhere.


It has been suggested that the very act of being incarnated is heroic, and all who return home, whether by suicide or not, are received with great respect by those souls who remain un-incarnate. Those, who move ahead through their cave experiences with courage are received by all their fellow souls as conquering heroes, and are allowed to move forward to more fulfilling stations as teachers and guides. We may all be explorers in varying degrees, and there is much happiness to be gained by acting as humble servants and teachers to others who have not experienced where we have been.


In the end, there is, perhaps, no end. And the story of our existence may be a never ending series of caves, which each lead to greater and greater experience and knowledge. There might be no salvation, because we are already immortal. Yet, there may also be no limit to knowledge, and the satisfaction we feel in achieving it will continue to grow to infinity. It may be impossible for any of us to conceive how happy one may possibly become, because there is, perhaps, no limit. Nor may there be any limit to the challenges that lie before us. Thus, the only judgment that we may face could be only that which we place upon ourselves.


So, it is possible that we have no requirements to fulfill except our own. And, it seems, therefore, that there may be absolutely no choices that are made on our behalf, except by ourselves. I do believe that we may be influenced by social pressure or encouragement from our peers and guides; which is why we have evolved as social beings. We find acceptance and pleasure in the loving encouragement of each other. So, perhaps, our choices may be influenced to a degree; but they are still ours to make.


Thus, I would speculate, that free-will is unlimited, but governed by ourselves with the help of soul mates and guides. Fate, destiny, and predestination, on the other hand, are limited and subject to change according to decisions that we make along the way. Some things can be foreseen; but may not be predestined. I suspect that the future is not an entity unto itself, which can be viewed at any occasion; nor can it be defined in the same way that we would define the past, or the present; for it may be that each is merely an illusion of observation from our very limited view. Just as we look at the sky as if it is a two-dimensional depiction of objects like beasts and people; it may be possible that we view Past, Present, and Future as illusory depictions on a three-dimensional plane; when, in fact, these belong to an unperceived four-dimensional plane.


And, as my left brain said to my right brain, "Enough already!!!!", so, I'll end these thoughts, and look forward to reading yours.


-Nightrain
 
Val said:
Interesting conversation. On one hand I like to believe we have total choice in our lives, but on the other hand I think we choose our parents, and basic circumstances before we are born. I see it as kind of like choosing a college class. We know what subject we are going to study, and we may even have an overview, but we don't know what lessons may come up until they are introduced, and sometimes lesson plans can change along the way.
I am not really comfortable with the thought that we are just randomly thrown into a life without any reason. But I am also not comfortable with the thought that almost everything is planned out for us. So I guess I believe there is a basic outline that we create before birth, but we are free to write the story as we wish while living it.
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Yes, I believe we do choose our parents, maybe even siblings. I don't think we are randomly thrown into life without a reason. We all have a purpose, but I think it is our souls who decide based upon what we need to learn. I'm sure the lessons are pretty concrete, because our soul is all knowing (especially, because we in human form are not), but the choices as to how to get to that lesson are infinite.
 
I believe we chose where we reincarnate and who we incarnate with, and I believe there is a plan going in, but free will plays a big role once life beings. I see it as kind of like preparing for a basketball game, for example. Before you know who you are playing, where you are playing, and what the gameplan is, but once the game begins anything can happen.

Susie said:
I'm sure the lessons are pretty concrete, because our soul is all knowing (especially, because we in human form are not), but the choices as to how to get to that lesson are infinite.
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I think this is the reason why anything can happen once life begins, because the human form is not all-knowing. If we, as human beings, knew and understood things as our soul does, we would likely make very different choices. I would go as far as saying that many of the decisions (or indecisions) we make in life are not entirely in line with our original plan. I would suspect that is why we seem to be such slow learners. If we weren't slow learners, we wouldn't have to spend thousands of years incarnating.
 
Hi all,


Reincarnation being real, it is inevitable that some of us may have lived a "famous" past life.


Personally, I believe that we do, to a large extent, make choices and set a plan, together with our Spiritual Guides, as to the major issues concerning each of our incarnations and the main issues we are to learn from them. Some may be changed by our own free-will, or even by the decisions and actions of others, but the major "grand plan" seems to remain the same.


Again IMO, there is a 50/50 ratio between that which we can choose and that which is "determined"... :)
 
I believe you come in where your left off. Every life is not a successful one in all respects. Possibly you never got control over impulsiveness or having a bad temper. I believe these traits stay with you to be conquered in THIS life. Free choice.??? OK.... Your choice who you marry but I believe the final outcome or destiny is already there at the start. There are particular places where you have a choice but your own personalty is going to determine what that choice may be....


I do believe that you WILL meet people again who you have karma with. It will be your choice whether to overcome that bad temper and get alng in this life or repeat again the bad relationship you had in the past. Just be the best person that you can be and don't worry about it.....
 
Her is something that I think is interesting.


When I was a young girl of about 12....I had long and slim feet...I hated them and used to ty to hide them while riding the bus to school with my friends. One day I announced after being teased..."you just don't know a royal foot when you see one! This is the foot of Princess Nefertiti who had the most beautiful feet in the world" I had always believed I had lived before. It was funny because after I said this in jest....I stopped hiding my feet


A year or so later I discovered tat my family went all the way back in Ireland to the Ross Castle (The O'Donoghues) So....again I teased my friends by saying I had probably been a Princess in a past life and If they made me bleed ....I would most likely bleed blue!


At the age of about 37 I went to see a psychic.


She stared at me for a few minutes and then said "They are bringing me a crown and placing it on your head. You were Mary Queen of Scots in a past life" I said "Oh pooh" She said "thats why you like England, Ireland, Scotland and France" I said "I hate all of those places and have NEVER had a desire to go there" I also hate Irish music....even tho Im Irish.


I had a sitting in a group for a past life and I came up with a little girl in the 1800's whose father was a Doctor in Maryland. I researched and found the Doctor...he did live....but I never found myself ....a 5 year old girl....maybe I passed away and there are no records available....who knows


I just thought the Princess thing was interesting.
 
That's very interesting, Florence, by researching my ancestry I came to find that I am descended of Mary Stuart's grandfather, King James IV. And in my lifetime as Charles Edward Stuart, you would have been my ancestor!!! :D


I say this quite openly here, but obviously it is not something I could go around saying anywhere else, for those around me would begin to think that I am like someone claiming to be Napoleon. Quite naturally, they would say I was nuts!!!


As well as the coincidence of having been given the same name, I had "memories" from childhood, from when my father used to sing a song that was composed for Bonnie Prince Charlie called "Charlie is my darling". One of them of an entrance to a town which, years later, I came to recognise as being exactly the same as the one in my childhood memory, called Biggar, on the road to Edinburgh.


At age 15, in the first spiritual encounter I ever had, I asked if reincarntion was real as I had only just recently read "The Spirits' Book", and whom I had been in a past lifetime. The answer was that I had been "Prince Charles Edward Stewart", with the "Stewart" written differently to mine.


At age 30, during a psychic reading made with "Búzios" (Cowry) shells, with a medium of not very high education, incorporated by an entity who presented herself as "Aunt Rita", she said to me that I "descended from a lineage of princes and kings", that I had lived in the 18th century, and that I "had the same name then as the one that I have now". And I literally almost fell over backwards...


Naturally, I was all excited about it at age 30. I wanted to let everyone know that "reincarnaion was real"! I wanted to go back to Scotland and recover a crown!!!


Whoa, boy... :)


This woman knew almost nothing at all about me. The story of "Bonnie Prince Charlie" is hardly known at all here in Brazil. I had certainly not mentioned anything at all about my encounter fifteen years earlier to her. The fact that she had very little education only made it harder to imagine that she herself might ever have heard of him. So, I was absolutely stunned...


But since then I have heard so much, and have seen so much, that has confirmed it all. Including what I came to learn, almost twenty years later, regarding my ancestry and my "descendance of a lineage of Princes and Kings". As well as an illegitmate daughter of King James IV, I also found among my ancestors three of King Robert II's sons, two of King James I's daughters, an illegitimate son of King Robert III, a pile of Capets, Aragons, Castilles... Goodness!!!


If any of you have ever watched the film "Braveheart", what I eventually found was that I am a descendant of literally all of the main characters in the film: King Robert I "The Bruce", Princess Isabella Capet of France, King Edward I "The Longshanks", his gay son Edward II (or was Edward III truly Wallace's son?), and, nicely enough, that among my various ancestors is also Sir William "The Braveheart" Wallace...


Going further back is William the Conqueror, Emperor Charles Magne...


So... :D


I know of other lifetimes of mine that were not famous: a Roman soldier, a soldier in the crusades, a poor street boy in London, a son of a slave, a German soldier in WWII...


Funnily enough, my claim to have been a "famous" person obviously far more worked against any claim as to the reality of reincarnation than in its favor. The only advantage, as far as I can tell, of having lived a "famous" past lifetime is in the fact that it is so well documented, which in my own case has helped me to "validate" certain points.


:) :thumbsup:
 
Reincarnation being real, it is inevitable that some of us may have lived a "famous" past life.
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You hit the nail there, I think :) It's really not a big deal. I think the reason why it's hyped so much is the human love for a bit of gossip, the fascination of a certain historical person and the possibility of his/hers reincarnation being able to tell us something that is not in the history books. Obviously historical people are fascinating, because history is fascinating.


But 'fame' is so coincidental. Yesterday I was at a museum here in Dk where one of the most well preserved Danish bog bodies is exhibited. His body tells a gruesome story of his last moments, but why he was killed is a mystery. One thing is for sure: The last thing his killers expected was that this guy was pulled out of the bog almost 2000 years later, conservated and exhibited, making him famous in all of Denmark and well known in at least the reast of Europe.


Modern analysis have brought him to life. We know his age, what his face looked like, we know intimate details about his health and what he had eaten in the days before his death, etc.


The Grauballe man is famous now, but his reincarnation probably wouldn't realize this since his life wasn't seems not have been much different from everyone else's at the time.


I think the same holds true for other 'famous people', both historical characters and present. 'Fame' isn't a trait in your character, but an adjective based on the relative number of people who know you. Surely some people played a part in history and was made famous through history. But history is never objective, never neutral. History is only the story told by the winner and so the really important person may not be the one we know from history books, but his opponent.


What I'm trying to say is that statistically we have all had famous past lives, it's not controversial at all. But 'fame' is not important as to who you are, 'famous people' are not neccessarily the heroes of history, they may not even have been important people of their time.
 
Hi Sunniva, :)


In my case, Charles Stuart is hailed as a "great hero" in all of Scotland. To me, the knowledge of this past lifetime has never ever been reason for any form of "pride", but rather a cause for deep sadness and regrets... :(
 
Sunniva, that is so true that fame is "no big deal." However, with some people who profess to have been someone famous, it seems to come with a false sense of self-importance (emphasized some people, because it's not true with all). All I want to say is, "So what? How does that realte to now?" No person is more or less important than another, whether you are Oprah or were King of England. It's all about the lessons and how they relate to one's life now.
 
Fame, of course, by itself, is not important. But, I think, our need to know that we are capable of having a good effect on the world is somewhat important. "Good", however, is a relative term that often has a dark side, as well; because what is good for some is sometimes very bad for others.


From the time we are born, we seek our identities; and, as we come to realize how very large the world is, we may begin to see ourselves as less important than we really are. With the knowledge of past lives, however, we may possibly find some sense of redemption, realizing that our lives might be worth something after all. Our very identity is intertwined with our need to know our past, whether cultural, genetic, or reincarnate.


And, when we discover our potential, we are emboldened to reach for things that we never thought possible. Intentions, of course, are the great determinants of whether we are reaching for the right things. To know, for example, that we might have been the cause of great suffering, could prompt us to pause and reflect about what we are presently doing. By the same token, knowing that we failed to stand for a just cause in a past life could prompt us to find our courage in this life.


What price would any of us be willing to pay, if we could know our true potential?


-Nightrain
 
Hi Charlie, How very fascinating for you to find out all of those facts.


Here is one for you....I worked with a very tall and slender young man who had a ruggedly handsome face and a full head of redish brown hair. He told me when the Movie Braveheart came out that he also was related to William Wallace. I believe his last name was Wallace as well.


After I was told I was "Mary"....She told me I died of Cancer. I said to my friend...."she is crazy....Mary Queen of Scots was beheaded." Sally (my friend) wanted to go to the library and read about her...so away we went. She WAS beheaded but the strange thing was that her servant helped her to the scaffle but refused to take her all the rest of the way...to her death. They said she was ill when she died and that her bed had a terrible smell......which...btw can be a sign of cancer...


I haven't thought about that in years but maybe she was dying of cancer....We will never know....


If I ever was her....maybe that's why I never liked groups of people and I dislike all of those countries....grin.......
 
Florence said:
I believe you come in where your left off. Every life is not a successful one in all respects. Possibly you never got control over impulsiveness or having a bad temper. I believe these traits stay with you to be conquered in THIS life. Free choice.??? OK.... Your choice who you marry but I believe the final outcome or destiny is already there at the start. There are particular places where you have a choice but your own personalty is going to determine what that choice may be....
I do believe that you WILL meet people again who you have karma with. It will be your choice whether to overcome that bad temper and get alng in this life or repeat again the bad relationship you had in the past. Just be the best person that you can be and don't worry about it.....
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I agree with this totally!!! Well said.


But this being the fame topic I'd like to quote Irene Cara's words 'Remember my name/Fame/I'm gonna live forever' by which she prooved to be a visionary fan of this forum too :D


As for the relation of 'having been famous' or 'having been important' to the now, I believe a trained eye can sense the difference in behaviour or manners with souls who have not had these experiences yet. There's often a higher sense of pride (among other things) with the first, which does not necessarily have to be bad as long as it doesn't go with feeling better. Like you can see or feel some have been there and some haven't...


This in fact being just a remark, but I'd like to mention it anyhow.
 
Hi all,


Nightrain, "famous past lives" mean absolutely nothing at all. Goodness, even Hitler must compete in the requisite of "being the most famous"!!!

To know, for example, that we might have been the cause of great suffering, could prompt us to pause and reflect about what we are presently doing.
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I believe that this lesson I finally learned in my last lifetime in WWII. I certainly wouldn't like to have to "repeat the process" all over again...

"Good", however, is a relative term that often has a dark side, as well; because what is good for some is sometimes very bad for others.
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Absolutely have to disagree. This is, indeed, a world of "contrasts": day and night, good and bad, life and death, ying and yang... Certainly I agree that such contrasts are necessary to give us the right perspective of "right and wrong", but I believe we ALL instinctively know where "good" lies...


Please try to follow it, kids... :)


Love to everyone,


Charles
 
I don't know if this was mentioned in someones post yet.....some people that are famous or infamous from history, may not have known that they were since in some cases they didn't become so until after they died, or in some cases, for all they knew, they were only known locally.


I'll finish this post when my little hyper guy is asleep. It's hard to type at the moment.
 
Nighttrain, I agree with you: a famous past life is easier to research, you are more likely to gain a lot of knowledgde about your past life and thus know your potential. I don't think necessarily think that a famous past life is more important and can give you a better lesson about your potential than a non-famous past life, but you are just more likely to know the details of the famous life.


Hope that made sense - still early morning here :coffee: :D

Absolutely have to disagree. This is, indeed, a world of "contrasts": day and night, good and bad, life and death, ying and yang... Certainly I agree that such contrasts are necessary to give us the right perspective of "right and wrong", but I believe we ALL instinctively know where "good" lies...
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I will have to disagree with you on that, Charles. There is a grey zone: what is good for some may not be good for others. People, who are called terrorists by some, are called heroes and freedomfighters by others.
 
Charles Stuart said:
I believe we ALL instinctively know where "good" lies...
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I doubt this. I don't think our moral awareness has to do with our instinct. Some people just lack moral awareness - which has been proven if I get it right - but everybody has instinct...
 
Fame is just a label that has been placed on a person by the media, other than that, they are just ordinary people like you and me. In the bigger scheme of things, they have no advantage in their spiritual growth just because their face was recognized by far more people than the ordinary person in the street. And as somebody said before, many of the historical figures who we consider to be famous today (because of all the literature written about them), didn't realize they were famous at the time they were alive, and that their actions would immortalize their name for generations to come.


As for people today who claim a famous past life, I often wonder if many of them simply 'make it up' for attention, or whether they genuinely believe that they were that person. I believe that many people who are not very 'clued up' on reincarnation, but still believe in it, believe that only the famous reincarnate, while the rest of us have to make do with just the one life. I know famous people do reincarnate of course, and that there are people who have genuine memories of those lives, but when, for example, you have 100 people claiming that they were Cleopatra in their past life, then at least 99 of them have to be wrong. I wonder if they were a) either very close to Cleopatra in their past, thus thinking that they were her, b) they remember an ancient past life as an Egyptian woman, so they automatically assume it must have been Cleopatra or c) maybe they were somebody who had a keen interest in her in their past? Same applies for any other historical figure. In my present life, my boyhood hero was Horatio Nelson, I did, and still do read every book about the great man that I can lay my hands on. Now suppose I remember all that reading in a future life, and it confuses me into thinking that I actually WAS him? All those 'memories' are simply memories of what I read in books in my past life. It's an interesting thought, to me anyway.


Chris :)
 
There is a grey zone: what is good for some may not be good for others. People, who are called terrorists by some, are called heroes and freedomfighters by others.
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Hi Sunniva, and what does your own instinct tell you? Could you ever consider the attack upon the Twin Towers as anything else but the uttermost evil? Prior to that, and less than ten days after he had taken office, therefore prior to the attack on the WTC, George Bush Jr ordered an attack upon a target in which six innocent civilians were killed. Can all this be because we hold no notion of "right" and "wrong", or is it just because we ourselves have distorted the concept? Certainly the world is not "black and white", and Nightrain, I did understand what you were saying; I was just using what you said to try to emphasize another point... :rolleyes:

I don't think our moral awareness has to do with our instinct. Some people just lack moral awareness - which has been proven if I get it right - but everybody has instinct...
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I believe only in the deepest cases of psychopathy does one lack "judgement". The Mayans sacrificed human beings believing they were "pleasing the Gods", can this make it any more "right" or "correct"? Certainly a savage cannot be judged under the same terms as a "civilized" person, but still I do believe we hold inside us a pretty good notion of "right" and "wrong"...


In my view, a great mistake of civilization has been to so often assume that another, such as the negro races, "have no soul" or are in any way different from ourselves; and hence the "karmic cycles" perpetuate themselves. This applies to civilizations as well as individuals, which is where "forgiveness" comes into play...

For example, you have 100 people claiming that they were Cleopatra in their past life, then at least 99 of them have to be wrong. I wonder if they were a) either very close to Cleopatra in their past, thus thinking that they were her, b) they remember an ancient past life as an Egyptian woman so they automatically assume it must have been Cleopatra or c) maybe they were somebody who had a keen interest in her in their past?
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Hi Chris,


I would opt for choice "a"... IMO certain "memories" can get mixed up with that of a "persona" who had great influence and was well known... :thumbsup:
 
what does your own instinct tell you? Could you ever consider the attack upon the Twin Towers as anything else but the uttermost evil?
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That's an unfair argument in a highly theoretical discussion, I think. What could I possibly reply? Certainly I wasn't like this :clapping: when it happened. I have the deepest sympathy with the victims and their families. It was a personal tragedy for so many people and it has changed the world we live in. On a political, and cynical, level however it was an act of war. In war there is no 'good' or 'bad', in that respect - all actions comitted in a war are evil. Even if we think we are noble and fighting for a good cause - our actions are still not good, which is probably why so many men and women are returning home from war deeply desillusioned and traumatized.


But war can be neccessary, unfortunately, and so we must believe that we are fighting for a just cause and that we are not killing civilians, that we are the good soldiers and the enemy are the bad soldiers. Things just don't work like that in a war. We are all shocked to hear of the conditions on Guantanamo or the, apparantly, random killing of civilians when we were supposed to be the good ones. People are willing to put all good moral, all their empathy aside, in a war, as long as they believe they fight for a good cause. So acts of war are really not very good examples of what is good and what is bad, because they need to be judged in a completely different context.


I think the discussion of good/bad needs to be placed outside a context of war. Preferably between people on a personal level in a discussion of moral and lack of moral, as Overseas put it.


Because the real key is 'empathy' or the lack of it. The ability to put yourself in someone else's situation and change your actions accordingly. The inability to do so will most probably make your actions come across as very selfish, perhaps even cruel -- and those actions are generally those are considered bad.


But this discussion is running astray, guys, remember it's about 'famous past lives' : angel:thumbsup:
 
What a wonderful reply, Sunniva. I take my hat off to you... :)


What I was getting at was in relation to our "collective consciousness". As DK said in another thread, the true and deep purpose of reincarnation is at a collective level. Until we have all learned collectively, at the level of "collective consciousness, the world will continue to be as it is... Oh well, at least we have all of eternity to get there. Were it otherwise and perhaps we might be in "heaven" and not on Earth. We are talking about "spirituality" here, so please forgive me... :rolleyes:


This is just a debate, guys, so let's just sit back and enjoy it...


Returning to "famous past lives", we so often hear that so many claim to be Napoleon or Cleopatra, but how many have you encountered that you have actually seen to really claim to be them? Personally I think this is just a myth.


One way I have personally found to differentiate what we "remember" or even "dream" as being a memory of our own or that of another is as to our point of view. I am quite certain that some who have "seen" Cleopatra may have interpreted what they saw as being a vision of themselves. Usually in a past life memory or vision the perspective is of one "looking out" as it were, from a perspective that we would usually see in our day to day lives.


In my "childhood memory", what I saw was myself upon a dark horse at the head of a troop of soldiers, heading towards the entrance of this small town. I was not "seeing myself", but "looking out"...


Let's get back on track, guys, and stick to the topic of this thread as Sunniva said.


In my own personal case, certainly I can prove my "ancestry". Obviously I cannot prove who I once was. Even if I could, very probably most would not believe it anyway...


:rolleyes: :)
 
In a couple of previous posts, I speculated about a connection to Rev. Charles Henry Parkhurst, who was a reformer in New York City during the 1890's. My sons discovered images on the internet while searching for anyone who shared our family surname. When they happened upon this, they were stunned; and more photos of C.H. Parkhurst absolutely caused them to flip out. When I read about his exploits, I really considered that the coincidences were quite uncanny.


However, when I later discovered that someone else made a similar claim, in Chapter 6 of Dr. Semkiw's book, “Return of the Revolutionaries”; I was reminded of my ego-driven propensity to search for personal identity. Although the details of his life have an uncanny similarity and synchronous feel, I have to recognize that I may only be identifying with someone of like mind. There is probably nothing wrong with that unless I make the mistake of casting my purpose aside and adopting his. Although my path is not always very clear, I know that Reverend C.H. Parkhurst's path has been traveled already. And, whatever lessons can be gained from someone else's experience can only be helpful; but should not constitute fact.


I do, however, find the photo comparisons between Ms. Pierce and Rev. Parkhurst to be somewhat dubious as shown by these photo examples. Hmmmm. I wonder.


So, if my long-winded posts resemble 20 minute sermons that are written for the pulpit; please don't blame me. It is merely the fault of a past life. :D


-Nightrain
 
I clicked on the link out of curiosity expecting a so-so resemblance, I literally jumped back when I saw it. That picture really does look like you.
 
Hi Nightrain,


It's wonderful when that happens, isn't it? :)

So, if my long-winded posts resemble 20 minute sermons that are written for the pulpit; please don't blame me. It is merely the fault of a past life.
Click to expand...
Must be same here regarding my aversion to "wars"... :thumbsup:
 
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