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Grandson and the "cupboard"

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Kitn

Kitn

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My grandson is 3 1/2 and very articulate. Today his mother was reading him a book and he said "my other mother pressed leaves." My daughter was shocked and asked him what is pressing leaves; he has never seen this done. He said you wait until they fall then smooth them out and put them in the book. He proceeded to show her using a tissue. She then asked what do you do with them? He replied "you put the book on my shelf for later." She asked what shelf and he said the one in his room at his other mother's house.

He then said you take the leaf out later, color on them and put it on a stick; also relating you must stick the end of the leaf in a bottle of glue. We have never had glue around so he does not know what it is. He does not attend preschool or any place he could have known about glue. He said "Tod" shooted his mother. We asked him where he was and he said he was hiding in the "cupboard".

We have never used the word cupboard as we call them cabinets. I asked him what is a cupboard and he went into the kitchen and pointed at the cabinet under the kitchen sink. She asked him where is his other mother and he said they buried her in the ground and put dirt on her. No way could he have known about burials. This was shocking to us to hear him talk about this as if it happened today. My daughter and I tried asking him about his other mother but all he would say is she has blond hair and wears big flowers on her. I tried to fool him and told him I was his other mother and he looked at me matter of factly and said in a very grown up tone-no your not.

He also talked about a mine at the end of a path even though he could not tell us what a mine is. He also refers to a sister which he does not have. He has 2 brothers 19 and 20 who are not in the home anymore. Is this remembering? His voice is so adamant about these events. We think maybe he is remembering a previous life, but are not sure.

We don't want to question him too much. Is it better just to listen? Also, if he is remembering how can we get a time frame? I told my daughter the word cupboard was used by my grandmothers and I know if the forties women wore large flower print dresses and skirts. I don't know anyone in our family history who was shot.

We asked Kade if he knew his other name when he lived with his other mother and he shook his head no. He did say my daughter is his mother now "because you were trying for me". My daughter did try for years for another child and even went to a fertility clinic. Kade never knew this. Thanks for having a forum to post questions.
 
Welcome to the forum, Kitn. :)

What a suprise you and your daughter must have had when your grandson started telling you all of that. It sounds like the book may have been the trigger for him. Does he seem pretty rooted in this life? You may want to remind him if he brings it up again that it was a past life that is now over, just to make sure there is no confusion on that fact.

We just recently had a discussion on the word "cupboard" here at the forum, and the fact that in some places, that word is still used instead of cabinet, pantry or closet. Mostly in Canada, the northern United States and England. In other words, the word "cupboard" could be due to a location rather than a time frame. A mine at the end of a path can also be a clue to a location. From the descriptions though, it does sound like his life took place in the 20th century, to me.

I don't see where it would hurt to ask open-ended questions or ask for clarification on things he tells you when he brings up the topic. I would suggest keeping a journal and writing down everything he tells you about, so that you can compare the details and check for consistency, and also so you have a record when he's older and starts to forget.

Thank you for sharing your grandson's story, and I hope you won't hesitate to keep us informed, and tell us your thoughts on the experience.

Chelle
 
thanks

Thank you Chelle. Yes I would say Kade is rooted. He is a very happy, intelligent child. His mother works and his father has a terminal illness. I keep him a lot. I had a daughter who was 16 when she was killed by a drunk driver. Kade told me she was in the Heaven. We do not attend church anymore because of all the tragedies in our family. I am teaching him the states with a puzzle he always points to Montana and says "I want to go there." I wonder if he recognizes the state. Thank you again
Kitn
 
What an incredible couple of posts Kitn. Thank you for sharing. From the words he used and if it is past life related, then I was wondering if he means the UK mainly England during the 1960's -70's. The flowers and the leave painting reminded me straight away of those days.
Best wishes to you and to Kade (I like that name lol)
Hammy.
 
Leaf painting

Thanks Hammy. What is leaf painting? The way Kade explained is you press the leaf (it has to fall) in a book and save it for later. Then you color the leaf and stick the end (stem??) into glue and glue it on a stick. What is the purpose for these. I have never seen nor heard of it being done.

He did mention the glue being in a bottle and you dip it into the bottle. When I was young glue came in jars. Are there mines in England? Do you think he could have been Tod and just thought the mans name was Tod? Again, thanks so much for the information. Kitn
 
Hello Kitn,

I live in Finland, but as children we used to "work" with leaves at home, day care or school in Autumn, when the leaves are in all colours, and for example the maple leaves are very beautiful. We'd collect them and press them in books, between the pages to dry them flat. After that we would glue them on paper to make a "painting" or use them as decoration etc. etc.

And at least here we have glue in plastic bottles, where you could easily dip the leaf's end (like "bone" - sorry for my vocabulary). So to me it sounds he has been "pottering" as a child with leaves - in a past life perhaps.

Karoliina
 
Hello Kitn,
the leaf painting I was thinking about is along the lines of what Karoliina has described. It seemed to be the 'in' thing in the 70's over here lol
As for mines, then the answer is yes. We have coal mines and I'm sure we still mine tin but don't quote me on that one. I noticed that Kade said something about a mine at the bottom of his garden. That makes me wonder if it was an old unused mine, maybe a tin one. There are loads and loads in Cornwall. Maybe you could follow that up?

Regards,
Hammy.
 
Hammy said:
Hello Kitn,
the leaf painting I was thinking about is along the lines of what Karoliina has described. It seemed to be the 'in' thing in the 70's over here lol
As for mines, then the answer is yes. We have coal mines and I'm sure we still mine tin but don't quote me on that one. I noticed that Kade said something about a mine at the bottom of his garden. That makes me wonder if it was an old unused mine, maybe a tin one. There are loads and loads in Cornwall. Maybe you could follow that up?

Regards,
Hammy.
Click to expand...

I live in Cornwall (UK) and can vouch for that Hammy! I keep horses on rented land, a few months ago i was walking along the field and noticed a hole in the ground, i peered down it and couldn't see the bottom, so i dropped a stone down and couldn't hear it hit the bottom. professionals had to be called in and the whole was 6ft wide and i can't remember how deep it was, but it had to be capped off because it was too deep to fill.
Many people do have mines at the bottom of the garden, interestingly there is a old man I know who has a well in his garden which he refers to as a "mine".

anyway...Your story about Kade is very interesting. I look forward to seeing if he says anything else. It does sound like it is from the 60's 70's to me. :)
 
Leaves

Thanks everyone. I know with my children we would take green leaves and put them between two pieces of waxed paper and iron them lightly. The children would then have to identify the leaves and make a small notebook of the collected leaves. This was a school project.

What stumped me was the coloring of the leaf and using glue to put it on a stick. He called it a "leaf pen". I am going to let him show me how to do it. He did say yesterday that he raked leaves and then jumped in them. We have never done that with him. We live in the county and just let leaves fall from what few trees we have; we have never raked them up. He showed us how to rake using his arms like he was holding a rake. We are surprised at the things he has been saying the last few days!

Kade said he lived in a wood house. I live in a mobile home. He said if you sawed the floor you could fall in. We live in the south where the water table is very high. I do not know anyone who has a basement so he could not have known about basements or a space under the house.

This boy has always slept with his mother or me. He said in his old house he slept in his own room by himself. He never mentions a father, just Tod. My daughter asked him if he was a boy or girl before and he said he was a boy. He also said he was a mean boy sometimes and his mother would lock him out of the house; letting him in later. He did mention a place but we cannot tell what he is saying. He said he wants to go there because it is fun. We are going to listen and try to figure out what word he is saying. I thought the word was carnival, but he said no.

His parents just bought a new house. So I will have him while they move for a few days. I am not going to ask him anything unless he starts the conversation; but I am going to pay attention. We are also going to do a leaf project. I do want to mention that he has never been interested in books. We have tried reading to him but he always runs to play. That is why we were shocked when he said he wanted to sit on her lap for his mother to read. I always read to my children and made it a rule to read 3 small childrens books each night at bedtime. This child never showed interest in books or stories. He is the busiest child I have ever seen and I have 23 grandchildren. He also never shuts up.

Another interesting thing he said is that he has another grandmother. I am his Grammy and his other grandmother is Grammy Patsy. He said "grandmother" and his other mother is "mother"; not mama or mommy. My mother passed away last year and he called her big mama. Where we live most children call grandmothers nana, nanny, me maw, grandma or grammy. He said his other grandmother is nice.

I will let you know if he comes out with anything new. I am sure in time he will forget about things he is saying now. I do want to tell about my daughter Casey. She was 3 when she started telling us she drowned in a well. She said her grandma tried to save her but could not. We never paid attention to what she had said and dismissed it as childhood worries. She was afraid of water for years despite taking her to swimming lessons. She would cling to me for dear life. My daughter was 16 when she was killed. She was coming home from prom when a drunk driver rear ended her car. Her car went into water and she drowned. After the wreck I had remembered her fears and her statements about drowning in a well. Her fear must have been a deep seeded memory of possibly another life.

Thanks everyone for your informative responses. Kitn
 
Kalevala

We finally got the word Kalevala! I searched the internet and it is Finnish. He said it is a "celebration" & you bring goodies, cookies, furs, baskets, and there are are horses there. He said the Kalevala is for everyone. I tried to get my sound recorder to work so I could link and you can hear, but I can't get it to work. I am working on it. Finland also has mines! He is very adamant about the pronounciation. He emphasized the sounds. There is no way he could have ever known about this. We tried to ask him if he meant Cali-for-nia, Col-or-ado etc he kept saying Kalla-valla. We searched and found Kalevala. If anyone has any knowledge of leafs used for this please let me know. He is very specific that you have to wait for the leaves to fall and you cannot pick them. Are there any Finnish on this site to help me with information? Also to Finnish people refer to roads as "paths"? Anyone ever been to Kalevalla?

Thanks so much, Kitn
 
Kitn,

Kalevala is a book, our national epic (I live in Finland), so it doesn't match with Kade's describings. And it doesn't mean anything else. We speak Finnish (or Swedish) here, so we wouldn't use an English word "paths".

I think Britain is a better bet, as he used the word "cupboard". When you said the word sounded like "carnival" I thought "Cornwall" that Hammy and BessieA mentioned.

I hope this helps. I'd be glad to help you if you want to know more about Kalevala.

Karoliina
 
Calevala is also the name of a Russian ship back in the 1860's. There was a huge celebration for the visiting Russian fleet back then in San Francisco.
There is also a Hindu college that includes that word in it's name, and a river in South America called Kallavalla.

Is it possible he is remembering the name of a small town or place and a festival took place there?
 
Kalevala

I asked him if he means carnival and he says no-kalavella and he pronounciates it so I can hear the sounds. He said it is a celebration in the winter where you bring goodies. He also said there is snow on the water so it is not water then. You also have to wear warm clothes. I guess that would not be San Fransico. I tried adjusting my sound recorder and now, lol, I do not have any sound at all. I will keep trying. He did say you drive a car there so that helps with a time frame. Another thing is we do not say "goodies" here, we say treats or snacks. He said goodies were cookies, candy, baskets etc. Is is always this difficult to estimate a time or place?
Blessings, Kitn
 
I googled "kalavella" for you and got some strange links in arabic I think. Also it appears to be the name for a rubber plantation in Sri Lanker. Not helpful I guess. So I tried the Google suggested alternative of "Kalevala" and found links to a book about alternative religions. Maybe, and of course this is pure guesswork, Kade is recalling something to with this religion;
http://altreligion.about.com/library/texts/kalavala/bl_27.htm

I think you've got your work cut out with this little guy. I only wish I could help you more. Good luck and keep us posted.
Best wishes,
Hammy.
 
Karoliina, is it possible he's talking about Kalevala Day? I read that it is celebrated on February 28th. They didn't list very many details, but called it a festival and a celebration. Gotta call in the resident expert on this one :D

The other thing I was thinking is that perhaps he is talking about two separate lives because "cupboards" and "paths" do seem more more English, however, I use both of those words here in Canada as well ;)


Ailish :)
 
"kalavella" reminded me of the word Caravela...
In portuguese it means a big ship, like the ones used by pirates...
I guess it doesn't have anything to do with your grandson's memory, but i thougth i would put my 2 cents anyways... :rolleyes:
 
Kalevala day is not celebrated here. It makes sense we have a day for our national epic, but I don't even remember hearing about it. Of course, I'm not sure if it has been celebrated before. And at the end of February it's still full winter here with lots of snow, so that would match. I'll see what I can find about the history of Kalevala day.

I think he's remembering at least two lives too.

I have never heard about mines in gardens here, but I wonder if Kade could mean a well.

Karoliina
 
Wow Kitn, you've got a fascinating young man there! I think it's great by the way how you're dealing with his memories, letting him instigate them and recording them as carefully as you do.

I haven't had chance to look in depth but many Finnish immigrants settled in mining towns in Montana and it's more than possible that they took their traditions of perhaps celebrating the Kalevala with them.

I'm not sure about the 'cupboard' reference. I'm English and I say 'cupboard' rather than anything else but I have no idea what terminology is used across the board in the US.

Do keep us informed! :)
 
klarry's post reminded me of one possibility that might account for the odd combination...

Northern Michigan's Upper Penninsula, otherwise known as da UP, was largely settled by Finnish and Cornish immigrants, who worked in the copper mines.

There is a section on Kalevala day, which mentions it taking place at Suomi College in Hancock, MI.
 
Kalevala links

I read the links and they are very informative. I am beginning to believe that if Kade is remembering a past life he was Finnish or maybe Finnish with another nationality, or American born. A marriage between a Finn and another may be the reason for the "path" and "cupboard." I know he said you take a car to the Kalevala. He has also pointed to an Indian woman in the book who had braids and said his other mother had hair like that but blonde. Or it could be he saw Indians in the USA. I know this young he may be confused or inner-mix memories (if he is really remembering). I believe him because of his tone of voice. When he speaks and make ups things his facial expressions are very dramatic and he gestures with his hands. When he is in reality his tone and manner are totally different. The words he used "goodies" "cupboards" "Kalevala" and "pressing leaves" are totally unfamiliar to him. I finally got my sound working again, but I cannot get the mic to work, but I am working on it. Last night he told me we could dance at the Kalevala but "I have to learn the dance". He really wants to go to Kalevala; whatever or wherever it may be. I know wherever it is, it is cold with snow on the ground and "we have to wear warm clothes" according to him. I believe when he said the water is snow that is it ice. My daughter said maybe Kade had the book Kalevala, but he said "he wants to go to Kalevala." I tend to believe it is an event rather than a book. He said "Tod shooted his mother", he also said his sisters name is "Tod" and yesterday he said his name was "Tod" when he was with his other mother. Tod must have played an important part in his other life. We do not know anyone named Tod. Kade does not watch anything but cartoons on television. Most of the time he is engrossed in nintendo games. He could not have learned any of this from programs. Thanks for all the input it is very helpful. Blessings, Kitn
 
Kade is sad

Last night my grandson spent his first night in his new house. They have a deck and a yard with lots of trees around. His mother took him outside and he started gathering leaves. He brought them to the deck. One of his older brothers was there and when Kade wanted to bring them inside his brother told him he could not. My daughter said he could bring them in and Kade said to her "help me "collect" the leaves." He brought the leaves in and started smoothing them with his hands. He then asked his mommy to call me. He got on the phone and said "grammy, I want to talk to my other mother." He sounded so sad. I replied by saying "I don't know her name do you?" He said no but repeated the request two more times. I told him I do not know who she is but if I did I would try to get her for him. Is this the right way to respond? Then I changed the subject to try to get his mind off his "other mother." I do not want to see this normally happy child so sad. What is the best way to answer his questions? Any help is greatly appreciated.
 
It may be that he hasn't fully grasped that his "other mother" was part of a different life than the one he is in now. A life that has ended and is finished. It might be an idea to explain that to him and see if that helps.

He's a lucky child to have you and his family listen to him and try to understand. It can be difficult to know how to handle sometimes. Carol Bowman's book, Children's Past Lives talks about how to handle children's past life memories, and it's very helpful. The first Chapter is here.
 
HI kitn,

May I suggest that you or your daughter encourage him to make art with the leaves? Art therapy is widely known and used to help aid in the healing process for all kinds of trauma. Especially for children. He can make collages, draw the leaves, trace them or color them.

Perhaps making leaf art will enable him to remember more about his mother so you can identify her , or perhaps just using the leaves as a theraputic tool will help him work through the internal emotions from the past.

I also encourage you to contact Carol Bowman if you feel you need further assistance or guidance with your grandson.

Thank you for sharing and allowing us the opportunity to hear/read about your grandson's expressions and memories.
 
Remembering

Thanks again. I will try to get the book from the library. Leaves for some reason mean a lot to him. We have been so busy here with his family trying to close on the new house and clean out the old one. I wanted to do a leaf project with him but have not had the time. Maybe this weekend I will keep him so they can straighten the new house and unpack. I tend to believe that he does not separate the two lives. He did say he did not die his other mother died. So if he knows his other mother died why would he ask to talk to her? He says she is far far away. He described her burial which must have been very traumatic. I think he may have been small to hide in the kitchen cabinet. Maybe at that time he did not understand death and is at the age now where he still does not understand??? I don't want to question him so I will listen and be open if he wants to talk. Then I will try to explain to him why he cannot talk to his other mother. I did research and have found that there are Kalevala Festivals in the USA. Thanks to info from this site I have found Michigan, Ohio and a couple of other states. It is stated that people come from all over to celebrate. I will read the link to the first chapter online. I live in a small southern town and sometimes books have to be requested so I may not be able to get it for a week. Everyone here is so helpful and understanding. I am glad to have found this site; thank you
 
kade wav

Here is a link to a page I finished today. I got my sound recorder working as best as I could. Maybe his pronounciation of Kaleval someone else can help with. He still insists there is snow there. I had to compress the file in order to upload it. I typed what I could incase it is not clear.

When he says kalaval it is like he rolls his tongue at the end of the word.

Yesterday he went home with his dad and he said to his dad "my other dad liked to ride hills with me".....That is the first mention of another dad.

The boy was more interested in watching the green line move while we recorded, so someplaces it is a little distorted. He is only 3 and all boy.
 
Hi Kitn,
When my son first started talking about his other family and mother that died, I came to this site for help. Chelle and Carol both advised me to explain to him that life was over and now he is in a new life. I told him that his other family had all gone to heaven and that at least he for certain, had chosen a new life with us. I must admit, because of the depth of his grief for his 'other family', I didn't think this would be enough but it really worked. Just a simple explanation did wonders. He even thanked me a couple of days later. he said he was glad to know we would all be in heaven some day.
You can order Carol's books off of Amazon.com I recommend both the Children's Past Lives and Return From Heaven. They are very clearly written in a way that even someone just learning about reincarnation can understand.
There is also a chapter or some pages on how to talk to a child who is remembering a past life.
Good luck to you.
Vicky
 
Hello Kitn,

I'd say Kade has lived in the U.S. or Canada in a family of Finnish immigrants. I know quite many Finnish people left there to look for a better life something like a hundred years ago, and they settled mainly in the Midwest (I think the area is called) - Wisconsin and the like. It's very possible immigrants have celebrated the Day of Finnish Culture, which is another name for Kalevala Day.

I tried to google to find out something about the history of that day in Finland, but I couldn't find any references to it being a big festival in the past either. I remember now we used to do a project or a play at school on that day, but it has never been a big thing in my time, especially outside school. But the book Kalevala is naturally very well known among all the Finnish people.

I also listened to Kade's pronounciation (what a cute boy he is!) and I have to say he doesn't pronounce it like a native Finnish speaker would. If it even is "Kalevala" he's saying. But it does sound like a foreigner trying to pronounce the word, if that makes any sense. In Finnish it is pronounced with "shorter L's" - Kade is pronouncing id with "double L's" so that in Finnish we would type it "Kallevalla" or "Kallevall". So this pronounciation makes me believe he has been an immigrant as well - and probably second or third generation, whose mother tongue has been English, not Finnish.

I have to go now, but I'm interested in hearing more, if Kade is still eager to share his memories.

Karoliina
 
Kaleva Michigan

We tend to think the way he pronounces Kalaval is foreign also. It almost sound Indian (is there anyone of Indian descent here who could help) the way he rolls his tongue on the l. I have checked different spellings on google, but found so many. I will keep searching. We did find a Kaleva, Michigan which is northwest. It is a town settled by the finnish. They did what they knew best when they came here which was mining.

They have a harvest festival, but it does not seem to be when snow is on the ground. Kade insists you bring "goodies" in a basket. You take them inside, but seems like the festival is outside. He says there is goodies, horses and dancing. I do not know about the terrain there. Kade said "his other dad liked to ride him on the hills."

Kade also has been calling me grandma since this started. I have always been grammy. He said he had another grandma and she was nice. He called her "grandmother." He says his other mother could be found in the garden-outside. So if he is remembering she must have had a garden. He said flowers grow in the garden. I nor his parents have ever had a garden and I have flower beds. He has always liked to help me plant and watch things grow. This summer we found seedling Maple trees and we call them Kades trees. He enjoyed watering them and took them to his house to plant.

Kaleval could be a festival or a place. If we could find this out I may be able to research if there ever was a shooting there with a child hiding in the "cupboard." Although Kaleval sounds Indian, I do not know if they call cabinets cupboards. This is like a big puzzle. I tried finding a site for text to speech to help with finding a meaning, but found none.

I also think he is confused about time. He states his other mother was shot and they buried her (put dirt on top of her). Yet he thinks she can be found outside in the garden. I tried explaining this is a different time with different parents but he insists "my other mother died, I didn't die." He thinks we can call her on the telephone or find her somewhere. I told him his other mother must have loved him a lot and he said yes she did. The name Tod also plays a big part in what he is saying. He does say his other mother has blonde hair and wore braids. He also was a boy then too.

We want to be able to discuss things with him as he asks or tells us things without leading him. If you listened to the wav file on the link above, are we approaching this the correct way? When he talks about his other mother or things we know nothing of, it is so matter of fact and like it is today. Thank you for all the input.
 
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