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Memories of Early Theosophists?

SeaAndSky said:
(CONT'D from prior post)
So, where does this leave me? The results I get when I get significant results at all have been a bit too strong for comfort. They also have some element of losing control that concerns me: I have a lot of duties to fulfill and I cannot afford to let this kind of thing disrupt my life. However, like many on this board my life is already somewhat disrupted and I don’t know that I can go back any more easily than I can go forward at this point. My biggest concern is that I don’t really 100% know what I am getting into. I recently responded to another thread by a channeler who was not certain whether he was channeling or remembering a PL. It is a real issue. I feel like I am slipping into an alternate identity when I feel my sense of my body (kinesthesia) or emotions blurring into those of another person (whether that person is my own prior self or somebody/something else). I even worry about possession.
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Strong emotional reactions are a hallmark of a past life memory. The soul is far more interested in emotions than in facts and figures after all. I know it can be a bit disorienting when you recall a past life strongly, but don't be too concerned. It usually fades after a few days or so. This is why we always suggest keeping a journal, because while you are having those strong feelings and emotions related to a past life event, it's the best time not just to record them, but to explore them and what they might mean for your life now. This is the best thing about doing this. It can help deepen our own understanding of ourselves, leading to insights that might help us avoid repeating past patterns for instance.
 
SeaAndSky said:
...Anyway, at this point, I cannot logically deny the possibility that I was merely indulging in a male thought train about the negatives of being female (from the standpoint of a male), but though it may have started out that way, it seemed to quickly morph into something quite different where I was getting very emotional about and expanding on the topic (from the standpoint of a female, and certainly not one with a modern mindset). So, where do I go from here? I’m not certain I could recapture and repeat what happened again. Given my inability to effectively do the Youtube regression thing more than once, I am concerned that my subconscious mind may act to shut down each route that proves effective, making further progress down this particular trail unavailable. On the other hand, I don’t know if I can stop trying—I just wish I knew how to be sure I wasn’t going to get in over my head without intending to do so.
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Different people have success with different methods of past life recall. Some people are more visual or verbal than others. Some like to use guided meditation, others have dreams. Some people find that following the emotions is a good way of gaining insight into a past life experience. It would seem that emotions work well for you, although, of course, you have found it a bit unsettling this first time you have tried it.


I know what you mean about having thoughts and emotions from a completely different gender, era and society pop into your head is a strange sort of experience. I wrote a bit about this in my thread Poland. Count Ladislaw was certainly a very passionate fellow, with powerful male feelings, and was sometimes not a very nice man at all. But I can see elements of his personality in myself sometimes. But it's not 'possession'. It's just memory. If you could remember what it felt like to be a little child on Christmas morning for instance, really conjure up that feeling, you can experience it all over again. It's the same with this.
 
Hi John,


I think you and I are very much on the same wave length on most matters. I also agree that the main goal in life and via reincarnation is to advance, yet a term like this begs the question of what it means to "advance." I think you know and understand what I mean, but I'll otherwise just leave it vague for the moment (though I really like the way you express it as "improving the pure self"). In any case, I'm vague partly because I don't exactly know what I mean myself, though I think it involves maturation through experience as much as it involves movement towards some vaguely perceived goal that can only be seen as a form of divinization. Hmm. Maybe it is divinization through maturation and experience or vice versa? I better stop before I get any more over my head.


Anyhow, it does seem clear that what "advance" or "improving the pure self" may mean at any particular point in an entity's existence could vary widely. I.e., what is good for entity A at a particular point may be no good at all to A at another point, or to entity B at all, and so forth. In this regard, I think it may be good for some to explore their past lives in an attempt to assimilate and learn from them even while they are in the physical as opposed to "in-between". (From Michael Newton's research and that of some others, this is one of the primary things we do between incarnations). For others, it is a healing exercise, as they try to cope with buried memories causing what amounts to post traumatic stress disorder and other problems welling up from prior existences. For still others, as you say, it may be merely a distraction from what they need to be doing in this life.


For myself, it seems to be a bit of all three plus something more. The "extra" something is a feeling that I am meant to do this and need to do this in order to accomplish something I'm supposed to accomplish in this life. I can't get any closer than that at this point, though I think it also involves integrating reincarnation and Christianity in a theologically viable manner. Something like this was also, by the way, very important in the life of the person who I believe I may have been in my PL--one of many similarities I have found, so its possible that I am still pursuing the same goal.


As a parting comment, I would note that--in terms of our nature--you are describing something very close to what is known theologically as the tripartite model of the human being--i.e., we are spirit, soul and body and each is distinctive. This was originally the majority view, but fell out of favor due to the fact that it was used by some heretics early in Christian history. Now it is a minority view with the bipartite view (we have a physical part and a non-physical--soul/spirit--part) being the majority view. The other minority view (on the opposite side of the bell curve) is the view that we are merely physical and so singular in nature.


Cordially,


SeaAndSky
 
Hi Tanguerra,


Thank you very much for your feedback. I appreciate it a great deal, as I consider myself to be very much the novice in this area.


I think my two greatest issues in moving forward in this area (which may actually be just one) are: Fear and losing control. I fear that I am getting into things beyond the scope of my ability to comprehend and assimilate that will have adverse affects on my life and family. Likewise, part of this fear is loss of control and what that could mean, even up to and including the submerging and/or subjugation of my personality into/under another. I may look back and think these are ridiculous someday, but for now they seem very real.


BTW--your referenced thread makes a marvelous read. It also makes a very convincing read in terms of your understanding of male mindset, emotional (and sexual) responses, and experience. As I thought, there are definitely others on this site who understand what it feels like to experience the emotions and mindset of the opposite sex. Also, btw, I'm sorry that you had to kill him. Dueling was a very present, brutal, and real part of the European experience for centuries.


Cordially,


SeaAndSky
 
HI SeaAndSpray


I found your post very interesting and informative. The following are my comments


Firstly it is my believe that blending faith with all of this clouds one's judgments to what is really going on and what you want to achieve. I could very well be wrong but that is my belief You don't have to turn into a non believer, just do not blend the two together looking for answers


In posts I have made on this forum I talked about having a severe heart attack and almost dyeing. I bring this up for a couple of important reasons. Over three days I was dyeing. What I talked about at the time and I think people did not understand the significance of what I learnt was how you feel as you experience your physical body slowly shutting down I use the term shutting down because that is what it was, I was not dyeing. You see the physical body was shutting down, the real and pure me was not shutting down or dyeing


Later on when I was close to death a nurse came in and held my hand and said she would stay with me. It was then I became something different I became the pure me, I was my consciousness and my pure self . I did not die, well they did not tell me I did, which I'm sure they would have


The point I'm making is that convinced me the pure me is real. You can believe that of yourself if you wish or you can dismiss the idea


That changed everything for me. I began to mediate making contact with my pure self which I did and continue to do


Since then I have has lucid dreams and have travelled


You are right the pure you does not advance you improve


Start thinking of the pure you as you, because that is what he is. He is the real you. The physical you will die never to return. The physical you has all of these doubts, misgivings and is worried if something is wrong or may go wrong. The pure you has no such problems. All of your problems and worries are all physical which will all disappear when the physical you dies. The pure you reincarnates in his purity


When you mediate and contact your pure self, be him, leave all of your physical problems within the physical you


If you can truly do that, then I believe things will change for the better for you. In time you will begin to understand that the pure you wants to and is eager to work with the physical you.


You see he must work with the physical you to have a greater


connection with his next physical entity. That way he will continue his improvement As I said the trick is you becoming more and more your pure self so you remember what is going on next time


Regards


John Tat
 
SeaAndSky said:
I think my two greatest issues in moving forward in this area (which may actually be just one) are: Fear and losing control. I fear that I am getting into things beyond the scope of my ability to comprehend and assimilate that will have adverse affects on my life and family. Likewise, part of this fear is loss of control and what that could mean, even up to and including the submerging and/or subjugation of my personality into/under another. I may look back and think these are ridiculous someday, but for now they seem very real.
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Fear is real until is it overcome, and you are right to be cautious because the fear itself creates vulnerability. In the same way that science has proven that we see first what we look for, and filter out the rest, no matter how significant, I think that what we realistically look for on the level of spirit is also what we find there. It isn't as though we make the unreal real, but that our senses perceive more of what we feel we will find. (See the invisible gorilla experiment.) Most things can be seen as fearsome or helpful, depending on the perspective.


I had to think very deeply and intensely about how love might drive out fear, and the key of love's source really is the answer to the dilemma you face. Also, where does your strength come from, really?


I call myself the straw in the ocean when I think of these things, because that is the image I was given. I have only so much capacity, but the entire "ocean" could flow through me given enough time. Whether it is love or strength, or both ... this changes how I see myself. The only way to be empty is to close myself off from the source by not trusting it, or to prevent it from flowing through me by refusing to direct myself toward that which calls upon that flow.


Obviously this isn't something that can be enough just by saying it. You seem aware enough to find the meaning in the key with some meditation, and you have the same resources we all do at that level. You are designed to be you. I do not think that is something you can lose. At most you will lose facades, and while that is painful ... it is also freeing.
 
SeaAndSky said:
BTW--your referenced thread makes a marvelous read. It also makes a very convincing read in terms of your understanding of male mindset, emotional (and sexual) responses, and experience. As I thought, there are definitely others on this site who understand what it feels like to experience the emotions and mindset of the opposite sex. Also, btw, I'm sorry that you had to kill him. Dueling was a very present, brutal, and real part of the European experience for centuries.


Cordially,


SeaAndSky
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Yes. I regret it too.


Perhaps (just guessing, you are the best judge of this) this experience you are having is something about learning to be a bit more emotional? Maybe it's OK to let yourself be a bit more in tune with your emotions and your intuition than you have previously thought? Your 'feminine side' to 'coin a phrase'? Maybe your feeling that you didn't want to be a woman any more was a rebellion against what you perceive(d) as a weakness, but perhaps there is something more? This fear of losing control of your emotions might be a clue?


There were enormous social, political and economic constraints on women back in the olden days, that still persist now of course. But there are also enormous constraints on men - to be rational, cold even. There are a lot of pressures on men to deny their feelings and pretend that they don't care, that they don't feel anything? Maybe this flood of emotion you are experiencing is some kind of balance happening?


Certainly, with the Polish life and its relevance to me at the time, was to see the huge pressures on men to deny their feelings about things - hiding them from others for instance was a big pressure. Maybe things would have been different today if there was not this social constraint? It certainly helped me to understand X better and to see what happened 'back then' with new, more modern eyes.


Just a thought.
 
I highly recommend this movie, or the novel, depending on your preference, for exploring the idea of being the same person but a different gender.


Orlando by Virginia Wolf.
 
John,


I should have mentioned that, in the tripartite model, the "spirit" is the real you--what you refer to as the "pure you." A mnemonic that is often used in terms of the relationships of the three parts is "I am a spirit, I have a soul, I live in a body."


Your post and experiences are very profound and have given me a great deal to think about. Overall, your post mirrors my thought on many issues, though I do not agree that "faith" and religion have no role in this matter. I wish I had time to say more, but I hope to revisit your post and make a more thorough reply later. In the meantime, are you familiar with the "Gospel of Thomas"? It is not an accepted part of the Scriptures, but I still find it very interesting. I first heard of it when I was reading a book called "Zen Flesh, Zen Bones" many, many years ago and found that the enigmatic sayings attributed to Christ were very much like those of Zen masters. In any case, I'm pasting in the first "saying" and my interpretation (both taken from an email conversation with someone else). I think it is apropos in terms of our current discussion:


"(1) And he said: He who shall find the interpretation of the words shall not taste of death."


We do not "taste" death when we are not aligned with the realm where death occurs. If my life is in this world (on the "horizontal" axis) I am identifying with the world of death and the body and things that have their life/death in this world and will die--hence, I will taste death. If my life identity and emphasis is "heavenward" and spiritual, identifying with an undying part of myself and lived on the "vertical" axis towards the divine, I am identifying with undying things and though my body and life in this world comes to an end, I will not taste death because "I" am not of this world and do not have my "life" here. Hence, the "interpretation of the words" (which I take to mean not only their understanding but their incorporation into my life and spirit) is intended to lead to the second type of life.


Cordially,


SeaAndSky
 
Tanguerra and Mere Dreamer,


Thank you very much for your posts. Time constraints have prevented me from responding sooner and keep me from responding as fully as I would like to at the moment, but your posts hit many "nails" right on the head (as the saying goes). It is good to find a place where there are people with the experience, ability and willingness to be of real assistance in dealing with the issues that arise in this area.


Thanks again,


SeaAndSky
 
Hello, SeaAndSky.


I have felt the ghostly-overlay of a body before too, both bigger and smaller. It is not just imagination or channeling. Others can see it too. People who I have known for years have stopped and looked at me funny and said, "I thought you were taller," or "you are much bigger than you really are" if that makes any sense.


I do not have any answers for you, of course, only suggestions. Perhaps you could write Vera a letter or something similar to put some distance between you? It might be interesting to see what she writes back.


Or maybe you could put Vera aside for a moment and look for her ?? instead? You did name yourself for her, after all.

SeaAndSky said:
I cannot remember the first Youtube that I used, but the presenter wanted to lead me down, down, down into valleys and cellars and so forth in inducing the right state of mind. Somehow, this just seemed to be wrong, for it seemed to me that I needed to be heading for the sea and possibly up high. Nonetheless, I got to the point where I looked down and saw what looked like a simple brown shift and a child's feet, along with a strong impression of a name and that I was a young girl standing near the shore and looking out across or towards the ocean. I believe this was on the coast of S. America, probably Brazil.
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Hi Blueheart,


I'm glad to have another confirmation that my "body" experience was not unique.


I hadn't really noticed the connection between the regression experiences and my chosen name for this board, I "thought" I chose it because sea and sky are both very meaningful and beautiful to me. But you are definitely correct in that the images I received both relate to the sea, and the sky was a very definite presence in the "Vera" experience. This does seem to be too similar to be a coincidence. Perhaps I feel like more of my "real" self is there with them rather than here--a spooky idea.


In any case, I will probably just try to get in touch with some emotions that are back there and just see where they lead--I may end up somewhere different from anywhere I've been. If that doesn't work, I may try another online regression and see where I end up. Also, I like the letter idea--it's one I hadn't heard before. My problem is that I work out of a home office with family (most of the time) nearby. So, quite frankly, I have to exploit limited occasions where I can claim some privacy without a lot of questions. This probably won't be until sometime late next week. Until then, I'll just have to bide my time.


Thanks and Best Wishes for a Happy New Year!


SeaAndSky
 
Well, I had to go back quite a few pages to find this thread, where I first began discussing my experiences with (as?) Vera Johnston and the "Other Girl" who may have been me in PLs.


I'm jumping back to this thread, though I have some other posts scattered elsewhere in regard to these two, because it seems like the most coherent and focused in terms of the subject matter. These two putative PLs have come back again rather strongly in some emotionally (as opposed to hypnotically) based regressions via the disc included with Roger Woolger's book: Healing Your Past Lives. I heartily recommend Woolger's book and methodology, which I have found to be easy to use. In essence, Woolger is not so worried about whether imagination has a place in what is being "recalled"--getting too hung up in worrying about this, as well as over-analysis and/or experience critique while you are in the experience tends to kill the experience (something I have found to be true for myself). So, go with the flow and see what comes, analysis/critique can come later. From what I can tell, Woolger sees this as being very conducive to release of the emotional "charge" embodied in the PL memories that are coming up, which in turn leads to healing and catharsis, which in turn will help to eliminate the subconscious blocking of memories--i.e., your actual PL memories will become more accessible without either blocking or imaginative substitutions/insertions. (However, this is my gloss and interpretation, so you'll have to read him yourself).


In any case, Woolger uses a guided meditation technique focused on certain things and then makes a transition at some point to the "origin" of the particular focus of meditation. (His "guidance" technique/voice may involve some hypnotic aspects as it is certainly very monotonous and relaxing, but there were none of the usual phased relaxation techniques I have seen others use). I tried the first three exercises last Thursday (which is one of the only days of the week I have a window of opportunity for such things).


In the first meditation (or "memory exercise") the focus is on re-imagining childhood games. He encourages you to focus on something that was a very important part of your childhood in this area and transitions to origin. The second memory exercise begins with a "personal difficulty". The third seeks to guide you through a complete lifetime up to and beyond death. I had very intense "Vera" experiences on the first two exercises, but had a lot of blocking on the third, which seemed to go to the "other girl" who seems to have been killed rather brutally. So, I will be going back to the well on the last one, and will report my initial experiences on the first two in a subsequent post. However, I can say that they were, though emotionally intense to me, relatively mundane in comparison to the usual traumatic and dramatic subject matter reported on this board. This may not reflect all that well on me then (as Vera) or now, but I'm trying to keep an honest record and that will have to include not just the good, bad and ugly, but what might be classified by some as the utterly mundane emotional turmoils of an otherwise quiet life.


S&S
 
First Woolger Exercise, as I recorded notes/impressions afterwards:


"Childhood habitual play--for me it came back to "space" fantasy and sci fi themes [and reading about them as well]. Pretending to be a spaceman or playing that my soldiers are spacemen, or building "space ships" to play in or to play with--then he [Woolger] says to go back to a past lifetime where the activity was important--impressions of myself in a dress in a quiet house--I am reading--probably Tsiolkovsky [maybe H. G. Wells, but there were lots of possibilities even then]--but it is impossible--I am a woman I cannot do such things--only men can have such excitement! Am I "receiving" this or is it the product of my past speculations? Is it a combination of "Vera" with research I did based on the idea that my extreme interest in this area was the product of being Tsiolkovsky or Goddard or a related person? I don't know whether this is merely imagination, but I feel very sad. Almost like . . . ."


The foregoing scenario connects with the not wanting to be female meme that I have reported before. And, I was certainly experiencing a lot of frustration and unhappiness with my limitations in this meditation, which seemingly took me back to a different day and age. However, I did not really question them in the modern feminist way, just felt very limited, frustrated and unhappy. BTW--Space play was an innate interest in my current life, starting with an immediate bang in this lifetime as soon as I was introduced to the idea at about 5 years old. There were no precursors, or initial build-up. I knew it was for me as soon as it came up in play with some older kids (and before I had seen or read any sci fi that I can recall).
 
Second Woolger Exercise--recorded impressions:


"Fix on the idea of personal difficulties--the one that comes up--money. [i'm immediately assaulted by a repetitive script:] "Money, money, there is never enough money." It keeps going on and on--after awhile there are tears dripping down my cheeks--once again I see myself as a woman--I am hugging my arms crying--I'm wearing a [long] white dress[, long sleeves, some type of pattern in vertical bands I think.] Sadness, frustration, helplessness, tears--never enough money and I'm stuck in the kitchen--I want to get out, but I don't even think about it. I don't even have an idea that it is possible as I am hugging him with my head against his chest--I love him so much--I am weeping. I think I want to do something. Something that will make money. Perhaps if these are Vera memories they pre-date some work we did with the Russian Orthodox Mission in NY. I don't know. So much sadness and sense of feminine helplessness. Tears."


I know this sounds silly, but this is the way I experienced it. What was a bit overwhelming to me as an impression afterwards was the intensity of female emotion, at least as I was experiencing it. There was not that part of myself that remains aloof. I have had emotional turmoil at times that made me feel like I was in a raft battling to stay afloat in rapids, but this was different. The closest I can say is that it felt like I was actually in the torrent rather than trying to ride on top of it. The love I felt for the person I was hugging was also incredibly intense and very different: totally and helplessly in love is the phrase that comes to mind. Yet, I have no emotional response to the photos of Charles Johnston that I have seen. Likewise, as a heterosexual male, husband, father and grandfather in this lifetime, these peeks (if they are accurate) into the female psyche (which was apparently my psyche at the time) are pretty hard to assimilate.


S&S
 
(CONT'D)


Some other points.


First, the two scenarios, whether supplied by imagination or memory seemed identical in both exercises, a fairly pleasant (but not overly large) home interior that was neither dreary nor dark and myself in a white or light dress. They could actually have been on the same day or occasion. For some reason I keep seeing the image of a small four pane window like something on a stair landing, but overall it is like I got up from where I was sitting/reading and paused on the way to the kitchen and had a bit of an emotional "moment".


Second, Vera was raised in a good family, with a mother who was a successful writer in Russia, she was multilingual, and certainly showed all the signs of a good intellect and a good "woman's" education of the Victorian era. I know it seems shallow, but people had servants in those days. Even relatively humble middle-class families had at least one. The "kitchen" thing just came banging into my head. I don't think I made that one up. I think that was part and parcel of her sense of how far she had fallen, and how much life had somehow failed to meet her expectations.


As promised, all very mundane, day-to-day stuff in terms of the usual dramatic PL things people report, but still a very emotional experience for me (and I am definitely not used to dripping tears down my stubbly old cheeks).


S&S
 
Third Woolger Exercise.


I did not record my impressions on this one last week, they were too fragmented. Woolger begins with a sweep around the world to find a particular meaningful country. I tried to fix on Germany, but I'm not certain that is really it. I'm in the scenario of the frightened girl who was killed, but the surroundings are very shadowy/unclear. What I can see really clearly is an angry overcast sky overhead. I have the same impression of myself in some kind of skirt, but I am hugging something around my upper body--almost like a sheet. I cannot get more on this one--everything seems blocked for the most part. I tried briefly to revisit this scenario today and re-do this exercise, but I kept going into a deep meditative state and falling asleep (which may be another form of blocking given the intense negative nature of the putative memories involved). However, I got the impression that this girl is the one I saw in my initial regression as a young girl on a beach, and that this scenario is possibly not in Europe at all, but perhaps in South America or the Caribbean area. So, no real clarity on this one. I think this will be one that I have to revisit many times to release some heavy emotions before I can begin to penetrate to actual clear memories.


Overall, Woolger may make me a believer in terms of his techniques. Time will tell. Time also seems to be indicating that despite my earliest concerns expressed in my first posts on this thread and board, recovering cross-gender memories that are antithetical in most respects to my current persona and sense of myself is indeed possible without having my brain (identity?) explode. Tanguerra may well smile at my concerns, but this kind of thing still strikes me as pretty weird at times.


Cordially,


S&S
 
Very interesting S&S.


Different techniques work for different people and it seems this one really works for you! Emotions are indeed quite often the best way in. Definitely switching off the chatter of your rational 'thinking' mind is the best way to get access to what lies beneath.


After a while you begin to be able to tell what is a memory and what is 'just' imagination. Most of the time there is at least some element of memory in there somewhere, it's just that we have been brought up to believe that anything we 'imagine' is 'made up' when often, it isn't.


Don't worry too much if something won't come right away and never try to force it. That is usually counter productive. Take note of the impressions you have so far and just wait. I have often found that 'bad' things are harder to recall, as there is a certain amount of resistance to going over them again. There is fear that we will be upset. There is a resistance to feeling pain.


However, what usually happens with me is that after a while they will just 'pop' into my head by themselves at some odd moment a few days, or even weeks, later. So, just keep a look out for random thoughts and impressions that may come to you, however fleetingly, over the next few weeks. If something starts coming, don't suppress it or dismiss it. Let it just float up by itself.
 
SeaAndSky said:
Tanguerra may well smile at my concerns, but this kind of thing still strikes me as pretty weird at times.
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It is pretty weird. Doesn't mean it doesn't 'happen'. :)
 
Hi Tang,


You've mentioned the sense of "difference" in terms of some of your "Count" memories. The difference isn't always that noticeable, but some of the emotions, attitudes, and approaches just seem to be so "over-the-top" female/male that the differences become rather stunningly obvious when you're coming from the opposite direction.


Yet, it was "me"--in the first person sense--feeling those emotions. That is what is incredible--the indissoluble sense that these are/were "my" emotions and attitudes! That was "me" and I was feeling/doing these things. I cannot deny them, though they are so different from who I am now. This is what leads to the shocking realization that "me" can include "that" way of feeling and being as well as "this" way of being and feeling. I'm not sure what to make of it. I suppose I always accepted this from a theoretical standpoint, but to actually experience it is something different.


Of course, for those that believe the "soul" has no gender, this may be less problematic than it is for me. For me it raises a different and far more stunning question: what is the "real" (majority?) me. Is that the "cross-gender" incarnation--one of the two out of ten (average) that Stevenson found in his research? Or, is this the "cross-gender" incarnation? Am I more truly "that" or "this"? Who is the real me--not in a transient bodily sense, but in the deeply personal interior sense?


These are the questions I am asking myself at this point--and with very little real sense of the answer. I can only hope that further research, growth in spiritual insight, and recovery of additional memories covering more PLs will help to provide an answer.


Cordially,


S&S
 
I look at my own last thought and think, "No, its not going to be because of a lot of research or anything else." The truth of the matter is that the sense of weirdness does tend to wear off. What was once weird and unbelievable tends to become commonplace in your mind after awhile. I've already seen a lot of that take place in my thinking since I joined this board. From the standpoint of most of human history history, the idea of people flying would have seemed not only strange but unbelievable, yet we accept it now without a thought. So it goes. Yesterdays existential crisis often becomes tomorrow's commonplace reality--with perhaps a yawn or two thrown in for good measure.
 
The problem as I see with all of these issues is, are we analysing them in a pure spiritual sense or with our physical brains? The problem with the physical brain is, men and women have different brains. The work differently and are basically different. Just one example of the difference is.. Every cell in a male brain contains the Y chromosome and in women's brains there are none .Brains are formed to conform to the "norm" for gender


That is the main reason for confusion in the belief in cross gender reincarnation How can a physical male and female brain have the capacity to think like and comprehend what it would be like to be the opposite gender? As I have said before I believe the spirit/soul does have gender, but its not physical gender, so in my opinion all our searching for the truth can only done by our pure spiritual self not the physical brain
 
Hi John,


I'm not sure what you mean, but I'll try to cover the bases as best I understand them. First, there is a lot of commonality in terms of emotions. We all "feel" the same list of emotions/feelings. They may--between male and female--be different in direction, emphasis, quantity and perhaps quality, but fear is still fear. Love is still love. Second, I can experience things I cannot myself "generate". For example, I can hear and experience a female soprano voice, though I cannot generate such a voice myself. Third, I was not "generating" these emotions--as best I understand the situation--but re-experiencing them via memory. As you note, I do not have the make-up to generate some of these feelings. That is why it seems so weird and bizarre--they do not correspond to my understanding of the "me" I am now. Fourth, I do not know "where" all of our PL memories are stored or maintained. I have to assume there is a non-physical storage location for the memories I accessed between lives. Whether they have to be "downloaded" to the physical to be accessed is a good question. Unfortunately, I do not have an answer.


Cordially,


S&S
 
Hi Sea and Sky


I will reply to what you said as I understand how things are.


Firstly you say.. After, saying things between male and female may take a different direction, emphasis and quality, which I agree with you say... fear is still fear and love is still love.. this is a good example of what I'm talking about Many things each gender fears and not fears for the other. We all know love is not exactly love .Most men have to work very hard at trying to understand what love is to a women, and the same in reverse, with neither ever really understanding the difference


It's my opinion respect is the same for both sexes. Over the years I have asked many elderly couples who are very happy with each other how did it happen? Most say it was not easy


If you are not generating the emotions you feel but re experiencing them through the memory of a dead physical body and brain long gone, then what you are saying is your current brain is doing its best in understanding the emotions of the opposite gender, which is impossible. When the simplest of things such as fear is not always fear and love is certainly not love, and emotion is starkly different between men and women whatever the physical brain feels is in no ways a true interpretation.


You see its impossible for both genders to agree on many issues including love. An understanding is reached between two physical entities, that is all that can be done. All of these issues plus hundreds of others all become factors in cross gender reincarnation and memories, and is one of the reasons I do not believe in it


If you believe as I do that the spirit is a separate entity from the physical then its not hard to believe where all of these memories are stored


Getting back to why I posted on this thread. In my opinion it must be spiritual analysis on the issues of this thread not physical. Physical brains are so different not only between genders but also the same gender.. There is no real truth in the physical brain on any of these issues. That is also why I see science as having no chance of solving any of the questions on reincarnation... The answers are not in the physical,no matter how much people wish and hope they are
 
John,


As we have learned from NDEs, the brain is not necessary to feel Love and most other feelings. These feelings are associated with awareness or consciousness rather than the brain, and it is that consciousness or awareness that is non-physical (does not die). This has been reported by both men and women so it would seem that the sex of the brain makes no difference.


The brain is like a computer, it can calculate but it does not do interpretation of the data and produce meaning. Meaning comes from consciousness which is outside of the physical body and is probably gender-neutral.


With that in mind, I would be interested in your re-wording your post so that I can better understand your direction.
 
Hi Ken


In the end I did say these answers are not in the physical but in the spiritual. In reply to your question about love and consciousness I have said many times on this forum that it is my belief the physical and spiritual us share the same consciousness and because the spiritual is far more refined it therefore has the abilities to make far better use of it. Our consciousness is our connection to the spiritual us. On the following issue I cannot agree with you. That the brain is like a computer and does not interpret data and produce meaning. In most cases it all begins with physical attraction and evolves into physical attraction and physical pleasures These attractions and then pleasures begin in the brain as it interprets the data then produces meaning and sends signals to the physical body and the physical body reacts accordingly


I'm sure our shared consciousness is capable and does have spiritual love. The question is, is that a love for the physical entity(which I doubt) or is it spiritual for the spiritual entity?


If I'm right and our consciousness/spirit only has love for the spiritual then all other love is physical. There could well be instances where the physical believes it's in love and the spiritual is not. It is not necessary for both to go hand in hand


I hope this answers your questions


Regards
 
Hi John,


I'm still not sure I am following your argument. Are you saying that it would be impossible for me to "remember" PL cross-gender female emotions because my current male brain is incapable of processing the data retained in my spirit's memory?


Also, you seem to be saying that we are comprised of separate entities, whereas I see myself as a single entity that has to immerse itself in various "interfaces" in order to exist and act in the physical. For example, there are (by various reports) at least one non-physical (or at least more refined) "body" or interface through which I interact with the physical body (which is an interface for interaction with the physical world). So, I see myself as currently immersed in and subject to these various interfaces, but ultimately the "real" me is beyond any of them and is the only "real" entity involved in the process. The physical and non-physical interfaces are assumed (in order to incarnate) and then discarded after a particular physical lifetime is finished--leaving the real me (which I think of as my "spirit").


Anyhow, I think we're all using different terminology and models, leading to a failure to clearly communicate.


Cordially,


S&S
 
Hi Sea and Sky


Yes I do believe the spirit and the physical are separate entities but connected. In all of my mediations with the spiritual me that is very obvious to me. The physical me is connected to and communicating with a separate entity, the pure spiritual me. The best analogy I can think of is...You and your car are not one and the same even though at times you are connected to it.You get into your car and you drive (control) the car to wherever you want to go. When you get to where you want to go you get out of the car and you are no longer connected to it.


This is where in my opinion a lot of confusion occurs believing the physical and spiritual are one and the same, The physical dies never to return. That experience then ends for the spiritual you, just as when you get out of the car. You remember both and all of the emotions of both but in the case of the physical body it's gone forever. Your spirit is left with the memories of that incarnation and moves on to the next
 
Hi Sea and Sky


I forgot to answer your question about a male physical brain interpreting female emotions. Yes it is physical impossibility for a male brain to understand female emotions just as it is for a female brain to understand male emotions. The scientific fact is, male and female brains are different. If you do believe you have had cross gender lives then those memories being processed by a male brain is the same as trying to fit and round peg into a square hole


Regards
 
Hi John,


I don’t think your “car” analogy differs substantially from my interface (or space suit) analogies. So, I think we’re on the same wavelength there.


On accessing cross-gender memories, I don’t know if the physical brain has anything to do with it, or whether it is beyond the abilities of the physical brain if it does. However, I think you are ignoring what you received, as I think I recall, from your source: that cross-gender memories exist, but are the result of the cross-over of memories between mother/fetus during the mother’s gestation period.


So, since your source took the time to explain the source of such memories, it is obvious that such memories can be received, accessed and/or brought to consciousness, though your source seems to indicate that they result from memory cross-over rather than actual cross-gender reincarnation. From that standpoint, your argument regarding brain structure is moot. Whether they are due to an actual cross-gender PL, or just cross-over memories, they are accessible (via either physical and/or non-physical interpretive resources). At this point, like any other PL memories, the manner in which we access them is a bit of a mystery except that it is obviously not through the prior physical (which died), though the physical (now) may possibly play some part in the process.


Cordially,


S&S
 
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