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Memories of Early Theosophists?

Hi Sea and Sky


First I must clarify something. My source is only a small contributor to the pure spiritual me, about Ancient Egypt and it was the pure spiritual me he told me about cross gender memories.. As I think I said at the time these memories were something like watching a movie not those experienced by my spiritual self.. What I find interesting about you S&S is, you are obviously an intelligent and well educated man far more so than I in both areas,yet you choose to ignore facts not about your beliefs because for most of them there is none for any of us,but those that must be taken into account when analysing what is happening to us. No matter how you analyse it,men's and women's brains are different and should be given serious consideration if you believe you have cross gender memories


It does no matter what you think I or anyone else believes about this, the facts are the facts no matter how much you don't want them to be


Regards
 
Cross gender memories...?


Hi John,


But why should the physical differences between male and female brains necessarily have any influence on the validity of cross-gender PL memories? One may well perceive those memories differently, through the “filter” of ones present-life gender and subsequent experience, but to dismiss the memories as somehow less believable or valid is just silly in my opinion. It's like saying an adult cannot possibly have memories of childhood because they are not physically a child and no longer think like one.


Until someone does a study conclusively proving that, owing to the architecture of their brains/genes, males and females cannot understand each other's emotions and therefore cannot reliably remember cross-gender PL memories, well I'm sticking to my own theory.


I believe that the brain is like your PC. My brother runs his on Linux, I run mine on Windows. His has an Intel processor, mine is AMD. The two are both PCs but their hardware and much of their software is different and incompatible. My brother and I both use our PCs to create artwork, write, shop and enjoy entertainment, in exactly the same way nevertheless. Like PCs (not to mention Macs, Android devices etc), not every brain has the same spec, but metaphorically speaking we're all capable of reading your posts on the forum!


Just my two penneth...
 
John Tat said:
... No matter how you analyse it,men's and women's brains are different and should be given serious consideration if you believe you have cross gender memories
It does no matter what you think I or anyone else believes about this, the facts are the facts no matter how much you don't want them to be.
Click to expand...
I have to agree with Dawn here. John, you say 'the facts are the facts', but that does not mean anything much to me. People are good at saying 'the fact is...' when it may or may not even be a fact. It certainly is not a reason to question someone's reported experiences.


What difference does it make about our 'brains' having different chromosomes? I think that is largely irrelevant. We are more than our bodies and more than our 'brains'. We are immortal and vast, multi-dimensional beings. The vessel we use to roam about and have experiences is interesting, but it is like the car you drive, as you say. What difference does it make if it's red or blue? A Toyota or a Ford? It doesn't make a lot of difference if the steering wheel is made of plastic or steel. Similarly, while it makes a big difference to the way the 'car' handles, and what it can physically do - for instance how fast it might be able to go and so on, maybe even how it makes the driver feel - the car does not control the driver, the driver controls the car.


I don't wish to derail this topic by getting into a discussion about whether what S&S is describing fits into your world view. I think we can just take his word for it that he has experienced what he has experienced and adjust our 'world view' accordingly if this does not fit into it.
 
KenJ said:
John,
As we have learned from NDEs, the brain is not necessary to feel Love and most other feelings. These feelings are associated with awareness or consciousness rather than the brain, and it is that consciousness or awareness that is non-physical (does not die). This has been reported by both men and women so it would seem that the sex of the brain makes no difference.
Click to expand...
Exactly. I have many memories of male lives. In those male lives I felt and saw things somewhat differently to the way a woman typically does, but that's no hindrance to my being able to remember those experiences perfectly well.


Some of those gender differences are socially enforced, for example, sometimes I remember being relatively hesitant and timid as a woman and much more self-confident as a man. Some differences in the level of emotional intensity are no doubt due to hormones - testosterone is well known to make people feel more fearless and aggressive for instance, even when taken by a woman. The hormone Prolactin makes women, especially pregnant women, more likely to cry. But, this business about crying is also socially reinforced. But both men and women have all these hormones, just in different amounts.


These are all fairly surface issues. Underneath it's always 'me' in there. I still feel the same sorts of things and think more or less the same way. They are all the different experiences that have made 'me' who 'I am'. Gender is barely relevant to my 'eternal soul' as far as I'm concerned.
 
Hi John,


I am very well aware of male/female brain differences, hormonal differences, etc. As a matter of fact, I have had discussions with others on the board defending the position that M/F psychological differences are primarily innate and biological, not merely the result of social conditioning. You and I apparently differ in whether these differences would block memory of cross-gender PLs. I don’t agree with your position on this. As you can tell, there are others who join in my conclusion and have had similar experiences.


In terms of such memories, I believe that I access a deeper level of myself in meditative experience or autohypnosis. That is part of the purpose of both meditation and hypnotism. Both basically act to withdraw the attention from the physical and surface consciousness. So, from my standpoint, I believe that I am moving away from my physically conditioned consciousness towards my “true” continuing self and consciousness unsullied and/or conditioned by my physical brain in order to recover past life memories. As noted, such memories are certainly not preserved in my (or your) physical brain. The brain we had back then no longer exists as a functional unit/organ. So, the only place they could be (aside from some kind of cosmic computer memory) is within the part of ourselves that continues from life-to-life. This is the part of me that is remembering. As it remembers, it is possible that these memories are also “downloaded” to the physical brain for subsequent easier access. Maybe. I really don’t know. All I know is that these things are coming to me as part of the process I am engaged in, and I identify with the person who had these experiences in much the same way I identify with the person I used to be when I access prior memories from my current life—i.e., I experience these as “my” memories and the person involved was "me" then. I don’t know any way to say it but that it seems very clear to me that she was me. And believe me, that is a staggering realization, and not one I was/am innately tuned into. I’d much rather have “remembered” that I was a dynamic male character and certainly a more “exciting” one either way! OTOH, now that I’ve made this connection, I have found a lot of connections between who I was then and who I am now. (BTW--I’m still not all that exciting or interesting—sigh.coffee)


Cordially,


S&S


PS—Tang, Dawn--thanks for your support and input. :thumbsup:
 
I fully understand what Dawn, tanguerra and Sea and Sky are saying. I also the same as them meditate with my spiritual side


the pure spiritual me. It is a communication between us, it's not that we become the spiritual, that is not possible until after the death of the physical body. After years of meditation I'm not convinced that spiritual memory is not computer like and that all of the lives and emotions of previous physical entities my spirit occupied are filtered through my current physical brain


which would influence many thing including those who believe they have had lives of a different gender


I raise this because not only me but no one else could say with any certainty that that this is not how it happens.


Many people come to this forum as guests looking for information and also just curiosity of who we are So what do they see?...At a guess I would think many things including many things that just do not add up. Volkman is great he reminds me of a young me not in age but in his exploration of what is going on. He questions the "norm" or whatever you want to call it. He is an explorer he goes into unchartered territory looking for answers. In the end explorers such as Volkman will find the answers in the spiritual long after this my current physical is over
 
Hi John,


I would dispute that there is more than one of me in any kind of ultimate sense. In the words of the old adage, I believe that I am a spirit, I have a soul, and I live in a body. Remember your own car/body analogy. We are not the vehicle we are driving. However, your analogy does have some validity in that the driver sees things through the windshield and glass surrounding him. In this and in other ways, his/her experience is conditioned and 'filtered" by the vehicle he/she drives.


Through meditation we are supposed to at least be able to pull off the road, stop having to keep our attention on the driving, turn off the radio and air conditioning, and . . . . ? Well, some meditative experience involves opening the windows to what is outside the car, some may even involve (in the form of astral projection) getting out of the car for a while, in other respects we have the opportunity to simply become aware of who we are as an entity separate from the car.


All analogies break down at some point, and I've taken this one about as far as it will go. I suppose the point of this is to say that the whole direction of meditation is to free us for some period from the view and perception of reality imposed by the car (and the limits imposed by having to attend to driving it). Does this mean that we escape the limitations of having our perceptions "filtered" through our physical brain (as you put it). I don't know that I ever totally escape such filtering. For others who can achieve deeper states of meditation and higher states of consciousness, perhaps they do. However, all of this assumes that a different brain structure makes it impossible to "remember" certain things, which is what we are really talking about. That would seem to assume two things. First, that this "filtering" function is never overcome enough through meditation to allow this. Second, that it would make any difference anyway. As I noted, I do not have to sing soprano to hear soprano.


In terms of visitors looking for truth, they will find what they should find: a group of people who are also looking for truth, and who don't always agree. They need to learn that quickly, because this board definitely does not eliminate the individual's need to do their own work and come to their own conclusions. Likewise, though I don't mind you having your own conclusions about things, I will come to my own.


Cordially,


S&S
 
Hi Sea and Sky


I just read your post and an understanding came across me.. We are on different journeys You are searching for truth and understanding about yourself.. I'm searching for understanding and truth about what this is all about... that is why we look at things differently and why I'm different to many on this forum


To be honest with you I have little interest in the physical entities the spiritual me has occupied.. The spiritual me has those memories and experiences in some form or other so I see no need to search for who those physical entities were. The only time I did chase was the WW11 pilot but then I realized what a waste of time and effort that was. Those memories are with the spiritual me that's all that matters to me Even through my source on Ancient Egypt his and my focus is on the big picture. I will in the next couple of days do a final post on that thread. So that is what I realized reading your last post


Regards
 
Hi John,


Your comments re our discussions have left me scratching my head. First, the idea that I and other board members are pursuing truth and understanding about ourselves and not about the big picture is completely erroneous as to me, and I believe it to be untrue of the great majority of people posting here as well. I'm not sure where you would get such an impression. Second, I am not sure how this relates to the topic under discussion or has grown out of our discussion. I have been responding to your comments. You have challenged the possibility of cross-gender memories based on brain structure.* This was not a topic I brought up. As noted, I'm having trouble connecting my comments in response to a topic you introduced with your conclusion that I (as well as most on this board) am/are interested in truth and understanding about ourselves and not the big picture.


Anyhow, I'll be very interested to get more info on the Egyptian thing. That has been an interesting thread, so I will be looking forward to your further postings there, including especially the big picture side of things. (Despite your conclusion that I lack interest in the area :cool:).


Cordially,


S&S


PS--*BTW, I don't consider your idea on this to be an absurd concern. I just don't think it is correct based on my own experience and that of others.
 
John Tat said:
We are on different journeys You are searching for truth and understanding about yourself. I'm searching for understanding and truth about what this is all about...
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John, I see no reason why a person can't seek to learn about their personal journey and 'what this is all about' at the same time. It is true that you seem to have a unique view about how things fit together and that's perfectly fine. You are entitled to your view and so is everyone else entitled to their views. None is better or more valid than any other, no matter how firmly convinced a person might be that they are 'right' and everyone else is 'wrong' about something.


We are all trying to figure things out. Nobody has a monopoly on 'truth' (if there even is such a thing). The more we listen to the experiences and view points of others, the more chance we have to learn about life and the universe and how it all works. The more we close our ears or minds to the words of others, the less likely we are to learn new things or gain fresh insights.
 
I understand that everyone has their own beliefs and ideas and I also acknowledge that at times I do get somewhat self centred about what I believe is going on.. There is so much that I believe I know is right that is were it is hard ... for example just on of dozens and dozens of things The reason I have been so aggressive on the the physical brain playing a critical role in all of this is...The spiritual me is educating my physical brain to enable it to understand spiritual memory You see it's my belief through communications with the spiritual me that spiritual memory a physical memory do not function in a similar manner. That is why it's so difficult for us to remember details about many things about previous lives including physical entities the spiritual us has occupied, if that is what you want. The spiritual me is also being educated on what he needs to do to help him communicate with a physical brain and those skills will go with him to the next physical incarnation, were he can begin again having this knowledge he gained during this incarnation.. through meditation it's a steady learning curve for both.. What I'm hoping is the skills learned by my physical brain can be stored in my spiritual self then uploaded into the new physical brain.. that is my hope Its my belief the physical brain plays a crucial role in all of this, because in the end the physical brain will still be there functioning as we evolve to our destiny and along the way it must evolve in this area to properly function. That is why I get frustrated on this issue when most must know you can never eliminate the physical brain when communicating with our spiritual side. It is also being educated on how to communicate with the spiritual side of us There I go again


That is why the physical brain is not meant to be on the outer it is a partner in all of this and must be educated. All of this is my belief and everyone has a different belief, I understand that
 
Hi John,


No problem. BTW--I also hope that the work I am doing now to recall PLs will allow me to be more gifted at this in FLs. I'd like to move up from my current status as a "3" to a "2". I'm not sure I'm ready to be a "1" yet.


Cordially,


S&S
 
This will serve as a very truncated account of a further attempt to use the third Woolger exercise, which also elided into the fourth Woolger exercise (which is easy to do when you are listening to a disc, get into a fairly deep meditative state, and then have the disc end one track and click right into the next).


Anyhow, I did not write this down immediately afterwards. I was not in a place to do so, plus I felt it needed a few days to think about first. However, the process remained fairly vague, though a few sharp image flashes came through. I am sure there were some very unpleasant aspects to this existence, especially in terms of my capture and enslavement, but nothing I "recalled" went back that far. Nor was it an intense emotional experience. Almost everything seemed to be "wrapped in cotton wool" except for a few quick glimpses or flashes of things that were a bit clearer.


In beginning the exercise, I thought I would be focusing on Brazil and/or that general region, instead I found myself and my attention sweeping towards North Africa. I have long intuited a PL in this area, so I was not totally surprised. I saw a characteristic dip in the coastline and "Libya" came to mind, but that may have been ordinary recall related to this feature rather than a PL memory.


What came after that would seem fairly strange to most, though not really a surprise to me. Once again, glory, prowess, position and honor elude me in terms of my PL memories. I was a slave. I supposed the image of the old family retainer is close enough, though I think I worked somewhere that was more like a palace. However, I found that I did not really resent my position, thought I was pretty well off, seemed to get along well with most of the people around me, honored (and almost revered) my master, and died peacefully (as far as I can tell).


Other than these things, I will keep this one (like some do from time-to-time) a bit more private. I make note of it just so I have a running account of my experiences I can go back to. Perhaps with time I will revisit this PL in a subsequent experience and/or feel more comfortable talking about what I think I just learned. At the moment . . . not gonna go there.


Anyhow, for now, signing off . . . .


S&S
 
Thanks S&S.


You're really getting the hang of this! It does get easier with practice. Perfectly fine to share what you want and not share what you don't want!
 
Hi Tang,


Thanks, but I'm actually not that advanced. I’ve just been going through an obsession phase. I recognize the symptoms. The disc and the need to remember is beginning to control me. It becomes something that keeps me beating my fists against the wall between me and memory—and shaking loose bits and pieces in the process. This “driven” quality that can almost take some of us over in this area is now something I recognize in myself and also know the cure—goin’ “cold turkey” for a while. (It is a problem that was discussed at length by many on the "Why do we do this?" thread).


I’m going to have to cool things down and take some time off. I.e., no problem with participating in the board, which is fun, but I will need to distance myself from my own case and memories for a while. Part of the reason I say that is that Trebor’s post and memory re airships really set me off yesterday, bringing in a third interest in my life (airships) as a uniting factor between two other interests (Brazil and Germany) that seem to be combined in regard to the girl who was killed. I found out a lot that I didn’t know about how closely Germany and Brazil were connected in the WWII era (both in terms of the double-digit German immigrant community in Brazil and the steady traffic back and forth, including the Graf Zeppelin’s normal route back-and-forth between Brazil and Germany between ’32 and ’37).


Germany was the place the Brazilian Nazis went to when the Brazilian government cracked-down on them, and Brazil in turn became one of the places that the German Nazis fled to when the war was lost. There is much more that I discovered in following through with online research on this matter, and I am now wondering whether I was with the families that fled from Brazil to Germany, but what I also found is that I had become so driven that I had lost almost an entire day of work on the project. Coming on top of days of distraction and fuzzy-minded under-production with PLs being an ongoing preoccupation, this is too much. It’s time to chill for a while until I get my balance back.


Cordially,


S&S


PS--I'll probably dive back in after a few weeks. Like I said--I'm driven, but for now duty (and sanity) calls!
 
The following posts are basically transfers of relevant information regarding putative Past Lives posted on other threads to this thread, as I am using it to consolidate information for my own future use, though it may have some interest for others:


From Past Life Vows

. . . upon certain occasions since I got started on this path I have found myself "randomly" thinking about the disadvantages of being female and found myself not only listing a lot of things I had never really thought about before, but becoming very emotional in the process and almost sliding into a different and much more "feminine" persona in the process. Consequently, I pretty quickly pulled up out of what seems to be a power dive into places I'm not ready to go.


OTOH, I feel bound to try and unravel who and what I am and get to the bottom of things. Consequently, I have (following the suggestions of some other sources), begun trying to lay down some affirmations while meditating about being able to remember PLs. Whether as a result of this or not, I have recently had some snippets of imagery come into mind that may or may not be representative of anything, though they seem important to me. One was a recent vague image of a little boy who seemed to be dressed in something like silk pajamas with some kind of hat or turban--perhaps a middle-eastern or eastern image. Another was even more shocking to me. It was of a girl who had been raped repeatedly and by more than one and was lying in the straw--in a barn or other similar structure I think. She is desolate and destroyed. I can remember the shock I felt when a bayonet was suddenly thrust into her chest. I was completely caught off guard, astonished and devastated, as she must have been. Hadn't they done enough already! I'm getting emotional thinking about this, so I'm signing off now and going to get myself another Advil. If this is a past life memory it would have been farther back than what I think is my most recent PL, but it could be part of a chain of things related to the issue. . . . Another even more terrible thought just occurred to me. I hope and pray I was not the one with the bayonet. That is the only thing I can think of that would impact the current me more than being the girl!


(CONT'D)
 
(CONT'D FROM ABOVE)


Post 37--8/17/15--


. . . . Another image (memory?) came into my head out of nowhere in particular last week--much like the very emotional bayoneting image I described in post #28 of this thread. I suppose what is strange in these is that I experience (remember?) what can only be described as a feminine perspective and mind-set in these cases--which is certainly disconcerting. Likewise, there is a strange mix of seeing a figure and seeing through the eyes of that figure.


Anyhow, I was in a nothing-in-particular reverie when I suddenly had an image of a girl (young woman?) picking her way through rubble. It seemed to be fairly large pieces and possibly including chunks of concrete--so possibly fairly modern. The most salient feature is fear and a sense of being very vulnerably naked. I (she?) wasn't unclothed, though I feel like what I (she?) had on might have been cheap and thin. It's just that I knew that if "they" saw me they would "see" me that way. The clothes wouldn't make any difference to them in the way they would see me and the way they would treat me. That is all--a very feminine sense of fear and caution picking "my" way through rubble for some as yet unknown purpose.


As noted, I think this may be related to the vignette detailed in post #28 on this thread, and probably preceded it. I am also beginning to believe that it may be somewhere in the WWII era. I had the impression that the "soldiers" in #28 wore heavy coats and had very long bayonets. I thought of something Napoleonic initially, but I have since seen photos and images of Russian WWII soldiers in heavy coats carrying rifles with very long, wicket bayonets. So, I'm wondering . . . .


Post 39--8/19/15--


Just to recount another brief experience--I . . . started to jog around the living room. (My kids find this strange, but I started jogging in place as part of doing the Royal Canadian Air Force Exercise routine decades ago—at some point I just extended it to jogging around the sofa—almost like the real thing except smaller steps). No one was home at the time, but I started thinking about my post and what you had said, and suddenly that wave of fear and emotion came over me, I found my internal conversation take a decided turn as that “other” female persona seemed to surge up, and I found myself saying to myself,“I’m never going to be HER again!!!” I think it was the combination of the running motion and what I was thinking about—maybe I/she ran back then too, trying to get away. I don’t know, but the surge and sense of losing myself in someone else’s identity and emotions, is very strong. The grief and fear start to build up very high. You have to jerk back, almost like you’ve touched a live wire.


I think trying to meditate on these images/emotions would be like lighting a firecracker and trying to hold it in my hand. After this happened I had chills and a pins and needles sensation all over my body for a few minutes. It’s almost like lightning struck nearby.


(CONT'D)
 
(CONT'D FROM ABOVE)


I just remembered something I haven’t thought about in years. I have a dent on one side of my chest over my heart. No birthmark or scar, just an area where the bone is somewhat concave rather than being more naturally curved. I can still remember my mother asking the pediatrician about this when I was still a young child and him reassuring her that (to paraphrase) eventually my boney little chest would have a layer of muscle that would cover it up. This was not much help to me later during a self-conscious adolescence looking down on my skinny, somewhat lop-sided chest, but he was ultimately correct. Adulthood did bring layers of flesh that mostly disguised the fact that the ribs on one side of my sternum bent in before taking a more natural curve. Consequently, I had pretty well forgotten about this over the past few decades, and certainly never connected it to a possible PL injury. . . . I woke up this morning with this on my mind for some reason, and wondering whether this had something to do with those hypothetical bayonets. So . . . since I'm keeping track of these things as they cross my mind, this will serve as a note to myself on the matter and a rather strange correspondence.


The subconscious mind is a strange thing.
 
The foregoing are consolidation posts attempting to bring various insights and memories to a single location for my own use and consequently not new information.


From my own standpoint, however, I see a minimum of 3 and perhaps up to 5 possible PLs in what I have uncovered so far:


(1) On the short end, the first would be (a) the Vera Johnston PL, which is the one that I am almost certain of (c. 1863-1923), another would be (b) the girl on a beach in Brazil(?) who was later bayoneted to death (possibly in gap c. 1923-1953 and possibly died in WWII Europe), and the third © would be the little boy/adult slave in Libya(?) c. ??.


(2) On the long end, the two "childhood" images/memories would be additional PLs.


I personally think it is (1) and not (2). The mystery of why some PLs jump out at a person and not other PLs leaves me wondering why these three? For us low memory folks, the PLs we do remember seem like they should have some factor that makes them more memorable to us than the others, possibly something traumatic that is relevant to our current life or situation. This is something to think about I suppose.
 
SeaAndSky


In my opinion you are trying to sort out to many life's at the me time.. My advise would be take one of them go to your computer or whatever you use and type out a brief but the important facts of one of those life's then print that out


When you are in the right mood both of us know what that is, and you are on your own sit at a table with the print out and read it over and over and over and over again. Then if you can,mediate and contact the spiritual side of yourself and say, "show me the answers"... It may not work the first time again it could, it does for me sometimes but keep going day after day, week after week if necessary to get the answers,then move on to another


life.. This is only a suggestion


Regards
 
SeaAndSky


I believe it's important to understand the concept about what I believe in and what comes from Ancient Egypt and embraced by the Christian religion in its own words, for all of this to work for you... I have said all along we are three separate entities in one physical spirit and soul.. (Ha, Ba and Ka)


The bible states that we were created by god in trinity of body, soul and spirit.. throughout the bible it clearly states the three are not the same. God is a holy trinity of the father, son and holy ghost, which I believe and have stated several times that they are both one and the same


It is my opinion that if you do not accept the trinity of man is true, then it becomes very difficult for you to achieve what you want to achieve. The foundations of who you are must be clear cut and final in your mind to succeed. I'm sure you believe you are at that point. What I'm trying to say is, it's my belief you must have a significant understanding of who and what your spirit is to have any type of meaningful communications.. I could be very very wrong but it appears very few have a clear understanding of who and what their spirit is, other than it's a part of them and connected to them


Regards
 
SeaAndSky said:
PS--I'll probably dive back in after a few weeks. Like I said--I'm driven, but for now duty (and sanity) calls!
Click to expand...
Yes. Just pace yourself and don't try to force anything. I find when something is trying to come up it can be very frustrating, and also bit overwhelming. You want to know what it is, but there are usually a lot of unsettling feelings that come up with it.


Just take your time. As John said, writing it all down can be good. That's why we suggest keeping a journal, so you can just note things down as they come to you if there is a lot coming all at once, but it doesn't make much sense. Then reading back over it later can often prompt more insights.


Just take it easy and trust that it will all make sense eventually.
 
SeaAndSky said:
The mystery of why some PLs jump out at a person and not other PLs leaves me wondering why these three?
Click to expand...
It's often when something in our present life is reminding us of something that happened before. There may be some kind of theme developing here that is reflecting something that you are feeling right now? Something that is bothering you, or a lesson you need to relearn, or a mistake you need to avoid repeating?


Just let it come to you. Try not to overthink it. Trust your feelings. Sometimes when you stop trying to rationalise your way around things, and working so hard to 'figure it all out', something will just go 'Bingo!' and it will all make sense.
 
I Had No Idea . . .


One of the strange "benefits" of being on this board is finding out things I didn't know before about history. Somehow my history books left out the "dirt" on the Russian counter-offensive that ended up taking a large part of Germany and Berlin. I had no idea . . .


I was just randomly thinking that maybe there might be some account of a young girl--possibly of Brazilian extraction being raped and killed in the aftermath of WWII, perhaps in Berlin. It was a foolish thought, in the midst of the chaos of war that such a thing would be noteworthy, but I had no idea how foolish. I simply didn't know the magnitude of the horror of those years. The Russian army was a mass of sadistic drunken murderers and rapists on an epic scale. It is a hidden holocaust that no one has talked much about until, apparently, relatively recently. I suppose the Germans weren't worthy of being mourned, or perhaps they just deserved what they got--as the bloody Bolsheviks said. Read it and weep, as I have:


"The majority of the assaults were committed in the Soviet occupation zone; estimates of the numbers of German women raped by Soviet soldiers have ranged up to 2 million. According to historian William Hitchcock, in many cases women were the victims of repeated rapes, some as many as 60 to 70 times. At least 100,000 women are believed to have been raped in Berlin, based on surging abortion rates in the following months and contemporary hospital reports, with an estimated 10,000 women dying in the aftermath. Female deaths in connection with the rapes in Germany, overall, are estimated at 240,000. Antony Beevor describes it as the "greatest phenomenon of mass rape in history", and has concluded that at least 1.4 million women were raped in East Prussia, Pomerania and Silesia alone. According to Natalya Gesse, Russian soldiers raped German females from eight to eighty years old. Russian women were not spared either. When Yugoslav politician Milovan Djilas complained about rapes in Yugoslavia, Stalin reportedly stated that he should "understand it if a soldier who has crossed thousands of kilometres through blood and fire and death has fun with a woman or takes some trifle." On another occasion, when told that Red Army soldiers sexually maltreated German refugees, he reportedly said: "We lecture our soldiers too much; let them have their initiative."' https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_during_the_occupation_of_Germany


This is bad enough, but a bit academic in tone compared to the actual horror of what went on. The stories are much worse, if you can stand them:


http://incredibleimages4u.blogspot.com/2010/04/german-women-raped-at-end-of-ww2.html


If you only read one article, however, I would read Beevor (a military historian of note): http://www.theguardian.com/books/2002/may/01/news.features11


He notes the following, which may relate to my blurry "memory" of trying to making my way through rubble, while feeling very frightened and vulnerable. Perhaps, I was also looking for food or water in the early hours while the monsters slept off their drunken barbarities from the previous night:


"Women soon learned to disappear during the "hunting hours" of the evening. Young daughters were hidden in storage lofts for days on end. Mothers emerged into the street to fetch water only in the early morning when Soviet soldiers were sleeping off the alcohol from the night before. Sometimes the greatest danger came from one mother giving away the hiding place of other girls in a desperate bid to save her own daughter. Older Berliners still remember the screams every night. It was impossible not to hear them because all the windows had been blown in."


In any case, I now have something to put up on the "What do you Hate" thread, even though what I feel is mostly horror and grief. Very, very deep grief.


S&S
 
This reminded me very strongly of the rubble strewn scene I seemed to remember. It wasn't as bad as this one, but similar.

1020100246.jpg

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Pretty horrifying stuff. I had heard of it only from the point of view of Russians who had been captured by the Germans, only to be treated more horribly (sent to the Gulag) by their own people upon their "release". They were treated as German spies.
 
This is just an update to my records as I use this thread to keep track of things that come up.


I think I had one of those dreams people consider as possible PL memories last night. It was not like a typical dream that I have. It was very realistic. I woke up for a bit during the dream, when I came back to bed I had the same dream again. At this point all I can recall from the dream is looking out across a crowded room full of people who were dressed like they were out on the town, something like a night club in the 20s-40s era. I had the impression it could almost be something like a New Years eve celebration. The name Cab Calloway was in my mine when I woke up. I also had the strong impression that many or most of the people were African American. I looked up Cab Calloway, which led me to the Cotton Club--a nightclub in NYC during the 30s and 40s with black entertainers but restricted white (for most of its history) clientele. So, I'm not sure how this fits in with my impression about the people I was seeing.


I am not into Jazz, Cab Calloway (though I've heard the name before), or anything of the type. The dream and scenario was completely random in terms of my current life and anything going on. That is one of the reasons it stands out--it is a fairly vivid image of something that has no connection to anything I was thinking about, have been interested in, or really even know very much about.


This would have to fit into a putative life in the 1923-1953 period. How it would fit in and how it relates to anything else I have no idea.
 
Hi Blueheart,


I wish I could say that it raised some memories, or even a hint of deja vu, but nothing at all except for a sense of acceptance. My putative aunt in that PL was enamored with Egypt as with India, with her first book titled "Isis Unveiled". No surprises there, as Egypt was the long time font of esoteric wisdom in the minds of Europeans going back to Ancient Greece and Rome. It is interesting how this association has largely faded since then, with far more attention paid to India and the far East. As to Blavatsky herself, all I have is a mild sense of general disapproval. At this point I don't really know how much is correct in the materials and ideas she promoted. But I had a definite sense, even in my early years of reading Theosophy, that her tendency to depersonalize the ultimate was over the line somehow. I do not know how "ultimate" and "personal" can come together, and certainly cannot comprehend what such a being would be like in itself. However, "impersonal" seems more than just wrong to me--it seems way, way wrong.


Anyhow, thanks for your thoughtfulness in bringing this to my attention. I wish I could remember more, but the gates are locked tight on most things. All that comes through are the feelings, which seem to be able to seep under and around the barriers (unlike more tangible memories).


Cordially,


S&S
 
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