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One soul? One claim?

Jim78

Jim78

Probationary
I've noticed that there are many Alexander The Great claimants in the world.

For instance:

Edgar Cayce claimed that Alexander and Thomas Jefferson were reincarnated as the same person.

https://psi-encyclopedia.spr.ac.uk/articles/famous-past-life-claims

They have nothing in common IMO. I just don't see how they could be the same soul. I don't believe Cayce personally.

This is a person on Yahoo who has a feeling they are Alexander The Great.

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080805112410AA4zQol

I think one would have to conclude that the claim is shaky at best. Feelings and coincidences alone don't indicate much IMO.

This is the most prolific claim I have read:

http://reincarnationforum.com/threads/my-past-life-story.5039/

A quick search of the individuals online footprint reveals they have done as much research as an Alexander scholar therefore I don't trust their claim.

Yogananda claimed Hitler was Alexander The Great:

https://www.quora.com/Reincarnation...-out-you-were-Adolf-Hitler-in-a-previous-life

Given Hitlers total lack of embracing other cultures and irrational tactics such as fighting a war on two fronts I find this claim unlikely myself.

This is an odd claim:

https://vnnforum.com/showthread.php?t=8132

Jim Morrison was Alexander. Aside from certain Dionysian influences on Morrison's part I see little resemblance myself.

I obviously have an idea who I think was Alexander but I'm wondering what other members think?

Who can we trust with so many claimants?

Who is the real deal?

I know Alexander has heavy karma because of the soul he has. The only one that sticks out in that regard is Hitler yet they are too dissimilar IMO.

What do you people think?
 
The one here on the forum seems somewhat credible, but we'd have no way of being able to validate it ourselves.

I think it's easy to convince yourself of something, whether it's right or not. PL memories are tricky and your current knowledge and views are liable to create 'memories' and stories that might not have happened.

I'm not sold on the Hitler/Alexander thing.
 
Hi, thank you for posting on this topic :) Like the links.
I have a loose theory that some souls show interest in some of the public historical figures and are allowed to access the famous someone's "file" on the Akashic Records,and then when they are themselves reincarnated and get memories they think it is their own memories, their old self -- when it is really someone else's. Then one has to compare other things to try to add up if the someone really was the historical, famous someone -- it has to be someone, right, but it is difficult if not impossible to know who looking at it from the outside.
Then I think some people have such pain in themselves and think they are of less value just because they are not "somebody" ( in their own eyes, measurements ). For them to then think they were actually "someone" in their past life will then boost them up with positive emotions, that they don't want to be without, instead of facing the real problem, why they think they are "nobody", when they are really not.
Then fame and history is not always what one think it is. I was myself extremely surprised to find out that I had lived right in the spotlight of celebrity events in a past life, and this is a life I would not wish to have back except for the great love she felt for her loved ones. It was such a difficult life. What I carry with me mostly from it is I think the importance to own one's own life and not let myself be dominated or have someone too close to me that I really can not afford to trust.
 
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Hi Klaud.

The way I see it the soul of Alexander The Great has been manifesting conflict for millennia. There's been ego manifestation too...the attempt to realise dreams and push boundaries.

What if I told you that the soul of Alexander has seen it all came from ego? That bravery etc was found to be as meaningless spiritually speaking as cowardice? That glory, heroism, ruthlessness, pushing the limits, becoming famous etc were all just traits that stemmed from a soul to force spiritual evolution?

There's a banality to genius absent from any claimants notions of Alexander that I have read. There's no rose tinted glasses when one has seen the dark places that the brutality of conflict can take a soul.

There's not even a sense of selflessness, a sense that one strived to create a better world. Once Alexander realised that existence could get along quite well without him it was only his own self that he was left to grapple with.

I know beyond doubt that Alexander almost irrevocably altered the world in the 21st century and as soon as he stayed his hand, for the first time on a large scale that he can remember, he was confronted with his past.

To the living his story is epic, but to the dead, the afterlife, the state of being that truly counts, he is a fool and the fools errand he went on left him confronting his own demons.
 
Hi Jaime.

Why would a soul be interested in a well known person when the soul has passed on? In my experience there are no 'fans' on the other side of the veil. What purpose would it serve a soul to view famous peoples memories? Curiosity? I don't think myself that the Akashic records are like a PlayStation Console, open to everyone for game playing.

Also I know for a fact that the souls of the departed couldn't care less for fame on Earth. On the other side of the veil we are all equal.

I hear you on people wishing they were somebody. I've never understood that myself. I think how deeply insecure those people must be.

So your own brush with the famous in your past life showed you how they were just like everyone else then?
 
Interesting post! I used to make fun saying Kim Jong-un is the reincarnated soul of Hitler. Both are ego driven and have little to no empathy for their fellow man. Although I'm sure that is not really true. However most historical figures that have lived in the past are more than likely not going to incarnate into the physical plane anytime soon. Simply because the lower ego being so overly developed has to spend time working things out on the lower to higher mental plane before the soul shed's its mental body and retains full consciousness once again on the causal/soul plane. For it is here that the soul being above, duality, time, space and the cycles of karma will make the decision to incarnate again into the lower worlds of duality if it so choses to do so. In fact your higher self is soul the real you, the eternal you. And yes it is far more aware than the human state of consciousness is. However the two can be connected once the lower ego is under control of the higher self allowing the human consciousness to become enlighten. As the lower ego is under the mind. The lower ego is not a bad thing really. It was designed to protect soul while in the lower worlds of duality and keep us safe from harm be it physical, mental or emotional. However....

There is an old saying. The mind is a useful servant but a very bad master.


If left uncheck the mind/lower ego or lower self if you will can run a muck causing all kinds of problems and creating more karma than need be. As it is self serving in nature seeking it own means to an end and not really caring who or what gets in its way. Over many lifetimes the lower ego can grow out of control. However universal karma will take care of this in due time. This is what generally happens to those that are famous figures in history and even in those who have recently past on in our present day who were famous Souls that are generally famous are usually at a late young soul to early mature soul stage of consciousness. A lot of karma and I mean a lot of karma is created and worked out during this stage of spiritual development. Which is why many that fall into this category live lifetimes that seems extreme to many be it mental, emotional, financial and even physical. Which is why they are associate with groups of people as this kind of karma that has to be worked out on a group soul level. Which is why that are famous. At least to us. On the other side of the veil it's just another experience to have nothing more.

In time the soul will grow out of the phase of spiritual development and become less material and ego driven and more emotionally aware and spiritual in nature. Which is why by the time soul has reached the old soul stage of awareness the physical plane has lost most if not all its allure. It's just tried of all that drama! All it's interested in now is working out what little karma it has left on the physical plane and cycle off the reincarnation wheel of birth and death within the physical plane all together. It still may have cycles of reincarnation on the higher astral or mental worlds still but it's done here at long last.



Peace and love... P.
 
Jim78 said:
Hi Jaime.

Why would a soul be interested in a well known person when the soul has passed on? In my experience there are no 'fans' on the other side of the veil. What purpose would it serve a soul to view famous peoples memories? Curiosity? I don't think myself that the Akashic records are like a PlayStation Console, open to everyone for game playing.

Also I know for a fact that the souls of the departed couldn't care less for fame on Earth. On the other side of the veil we are all equal.

I hear you on people wishing they were somebody. I've never understood that myself. I think how deeply insecure those people must be.

So your own brush with the famous in your past life showed you how they were just like everyone else then?
Click to expand...
Hi, I understand your thinking. Well, my thinking is that from let's say a historical point of view, if I have read a lot of stuff on the French Revolution in school and wondered some things. That now is my opportunity to find out what the thinking, what really happened in certain situations and so forth, to get a better understanding, it is not that one has to be a fan of someone, but maybe interested in certain historical events.

I agree what you say about us all being equal. Yes, I think too that certain people are deeply insecure, that it comes from a deep pain in themselves and if they have found an escape button they are gonna try it.

Yes, the famous ones (some were famous for a little while and then not, some did not have fame until afterwards, and some only had a drop of a taste of fame, and some were well, famous throughout) are just like everyone else, they just went into the fabric and were polished but were still just people.

I could tell there were different drives to what had brought them there. One had a troubled childhood and early on found his escape button to pretend to be someone else, also had lots of questions about life and after life, and of people -- a searcher. Another had a happy childhood and the energy for two, and was hardworking and would have been this way in what ever occupation or home wife life style she would have. However, I am sure that if she had been a man she would have been more complimented for her brain, her witty comments, back then. They would just say she was "cute". She was cute -- but she was sharp. I loved her dearly, I wanted the best for her, she was a very compassionate, real heart kind of person, made people feel good about themselves and about life. She was someone who was in her very essence out on stage or if a camera was on her -- then she shone up, then she was "home", she raveled in the excitement, most likely lots of stuff happening in the brain there -- feel good hormones of some kind. She just wanted a fun time. Both these "types" loved their craft.

Then there was the kind that were very superficial and would have gone to extreme to have fame, to have the spotlight on them, who would lie and would do things, well all kinds of things. They were very egocentric, I could not see any dept in the drive for those kind, but I could tell that they needed much attention to feel OK about themselves, they did not seem to have much of a moral compass about how one should treat other people.

In any way, I think someone who gets too much fame, get into a position of having people around who does a lot of butt licking ( and back stabbing ) they do not get the critique they may deserve and I don't think it is a good thing. People should always be each other's equal and one should try to keep it real.

Then there was the kind that were only children when brought into this world and would sometimes have a parent or someone else in charge of them that should have been the one there instead of the child, that wanted it real bad. These parents often did not had "what it takes" or had lost their opportunities somewhere along the way and saw their chance through the child. Some -- not all -- were not the best parents. Some looked the other way while their poor child was left with someone damaged, pretending they did not know, well they sure as hell knew. I should stop there.

I am sure that every individual had more to them that I could not see, what made them tick, but this is what I remember seeing or knowing, in short.
 
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Jim78 said:
http://reincarnationforum.com/threads/my-past-life-story.5039/

A quick search of the individuals online footprint reveals they have done as much research as an Alexander scholar therefore I don't trust their claim.
Click to expand...

But maybe they did scholarly research on Alexander the Great to either investigate more or try to dismiss their claim. I actually know the person, and while I couldn't care less if she was Alexander the Great or not since I find the character extremely dull anyway, I know that she was having a hard time accepting a famous past life in general, as it happens for many people who believe in reincarnation. I find it natural that someone who believes they have a famous past life would read more about their supposed past self to either try to prove or disprove themselves.
 
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Hi Polaris8.

What makes you think all famous people are young souls? Many people become famous as a byproduct of their chosen profession for instance. They didn't actively seek fame.

Where do you get your information please?
 
Hi Jaime.

I'm glad you pointed out different reasons for ( I assume actors? ) gaining fame and success.

There are many different nuances and motivations, circumstances, as to why someone would become famous.

I'd like to know how Polaris8 reconciles all the varying reasons for fame with their assertion that only young souls become famous.

It seems to me the reasons for fame are as numerous as the reasons for obscurity.
 
Hi Owl.

I agree research is necessary. I myself have read pathologist statements, historical details like buildings and clothing, colours, social structures, a general overview of events etc in relation to my pls. A lot of it I posted on this very site. Yet they tell me little about the person I was, that comes from memory and while now and again I accidentally stumbled on validations of those too I know little in research terms about what my pl was actually like. I rely almost solely on pl memory for that.

Now if I was micro examining every little pl decision and umpteen historical and fanmade viewpoints on my pl and finding a general consensus I would question whether my memories are real or not.

It is possible to do research without tainting ones memories by keeping focus off the pl and focusing on peripheral details.

The one time I talked about my pl on another forum outside of the reincarnation community it was an argument about a Pact Agreement. It was a political discussion about the split in the army, it wasn't a hyper analytical dissection and discussion about my pl. It was about the period in which I lived. I steer clear of detailed discussion about my pls so I can continue to validate my memories.
 
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Jim78 said:
Hi Polaris8.

What makes you think all famous people are young souls? Many people become famous as a byproduct of their chosen profession for instance. They didn't actively seek fame.

Where do you get your information please?
Click to expand...
Jim78,
ed
Sorry for the confusions. I received this information from two sources. One from a website called ...

Michael Teachings
https://www.michaelteachings.com/soul_ages.html

And the other source from some of my OBE's travels within the inner worlds. Much like our school systems here on earth soul goes thru various stages of spiritual development during it's many incarnations on the physical plane as well as the lower worlds of duality which also includes the astral and mental planes or dimensions beyond the physical. Its not about real age as we understand it as soul is eternal but rather how souls perceives and experiences the lower world including the physical plane by it's state of consciousness and its understanding of itself and the world at large. This is why on Earth we have so many different religions and spiritual paths because everyone is experiencing god, the soul and reality from their own unique perspective. When we die we cross over and we tend to gravitate towards a sub plane within the astral dimensions that resonates with out consciousness. In essence souls are grouped together by like mind.

So many Young souls are learning to be independent actors in the world, exercising their free will. Hence, there is a major emphasis on heroic self-assertion and progress, freeing oneself from limiting structures, finding one’s own strengths and talents, discovering “what I’m made of”.

The main lesson for souls in the young soul stage of their evolvement is to do with exploring and expressing individuality, discovering the power of independence in thought, will and action. There is a strong desire to make a personal impact on the outer world, so the focus is very much outwards and with a lot of energy.

As times goes on over many lifetimes the soul will out grow this stage of development and move into the mature soul stage of awareness. The lives of mature souls focus on exploring the true nature of self, life and especially others. Reaching beyond the forthright independence of the third stage, the major challenge at this fourth stage is to discover how to live inter-dependently with others, and other-ness in general. The mature soul develops an ever-deepening sense of both self and others. Life is no longer simply a matter of what happens out there in the world, but also what is going on “in here”, where we are coming from, what it all means.

Through understanding more and more of their own psychology, mature souls also learn about what makes others tick. They come to recognize that all others are their equals, at least on the inside. In fact, their own perspective is nothing but one among many equally valid perspectives.

So in essesnce our physcial plane and in fact our whole physical universe is a training ground and school for soul to learn about itself thur it's own experiences. Many of the souls on this website have already gone thru earlier stages of spiritual development in their past lives as infant, baby and even young and are now in a mature or old soul stage of development at this point. Simply because they are looking inward now for answers to life's bigger questions. By doing this they are putting the pieces together for themselves and are realizing the bigger picture of what life is all about form them by exploring their past lives and seeing that soul is in fact eternal by nature.

Anyway enough of my rambbling. I hope this helps some.

Thanks for asking. Peace an love. P
 
Jim78 said:
Hi Klaud.

The way I see it the soul of Alexander The Great has been manifesting conflict for millennia. There's been ego manifestation too...the attempt to realise dreams and push boundaries.

What if I told you that the soul of Alexander has seen it all came from ego? That bravery etc was found to be as meaningless spiritually speaking as cowardice? That glory, heroism, ruthlessness, pushing the limits, becoming famous etc were all just traits that stemmed from a soul to force spiritual evolution?

There's a banality to genius absent from any claimants notions of Alexander that I have read. There's no rose tinted glasses when one has seen the dark places that the brutality of conflict can take a soul.

There's not even a sense of selflessness, a sense that one strived to create a better world. Once Alexander realised that existence could get along quite well without him it was only his own self that he was left to grapple with.

I know beyond doubt that Alexander almost irrevocably altered the world in the 21st century and as soon as he stayed his hand, for the first time on a large scale that he can remember, he was confronted with his past.

To the living his story is epic, but to the dead, the afterlife, the state of being that truly counts, he is a fool and the fools errand he went on left him confronting his own demons.
Click to expand...

There's no question that Alexander's soul has to deal with their super sized ego. I'm just not entirely convinced that he reincarnated as Hitler. There's more than one way to learn a lesson, even if it means living in obscurity.
 
Thank you, Jim78. Yes, actors but also dancers, models, singers... the first time I realized, for sure, that my past self's profession was reliable on my looks was when I suddenly saw myself
( a grown woman's body ) standing up in a bathtub with a shower curtain on the side and my hair wet to the shoulders. An older lady was holding up a towel as to protect my body from being visible to the other people being further away. Of course they were all fully dressed, and someone smoking and so on. Just me who had to stand there butt naked. I was nervous and I had to wait for something. Still I felt very professional. I tried to stay positive. This lady felt like a mother figure to me, even if I knew she was not my mother. I trusted her. I knew her. Somehow I knew her. I could tell we were close. I remember thinking "Sh.. ! I was in some dirty no-good- movie ! I knew it ! This is just my luck !". When people in my life has tried to pursue me to be a model or actress, especially as I got older-- this little scene that lasted only very short in my inner mind -- stayed glued on to me and I thought that is where I am gonna end up sooner or later if I chose that road. All my focus was on getting a good proper education and finding a stable job that was for keeps no matter if someone liked my looks or not. One day, looking through very old film footage I saw the lady who had been holding up the tower! She was very much real. She was just one in the crowd, waiting aside, not someone famous, but still working in the industry, but not as a front figure, but so many had so many different jobs within the entertainment world and they were all needed. I'm telling you, that lady -- was more precious to me than any one else in the crowd of "famous" people around or so at least it felt. I was someone most likely more nervous and jumpy than any one else behind a camera, and I was very much human, people are still people what ever side of the camera they are at. Sometimes I think some people seem to forget that.

/Jaimie
 
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Polaris,

While what you say makes sense (and I tend to agree with much of it), I would note that something about the way you phrased your posts in this thread seemed mildly accusatory in the way it pigeonholed the entirety of famous people into having the desire to become famous to fulfill some insecurity. While this is definitely the case for some people, to my eyes this seems an oversimplification which excludes many forms of fame/infamy. Perhaps in our era of Hollywood, reality TV, etc. most peoples' concept of fame has been shaped by the way society holds up these iconic people who have worked their whole lives merely to make themselves seen. As someone who tends to look at the past a little more than perhaps I should, I tend to think that fame happens equally whether it is your goal or not--you just have to be in the proper circumstances. Most famous people throughout history were born into influential families, and would therefore not have had the same opportunities to become famous had they been born Joe the farmer's son. Joe the farmer's son has little to no chance of becoming a world-famous political leader, no matter his ambition. Whereas a born noble could become infamous for making one small decision in the way that they governed which had no connection to a desire for recognition. That is not to say it has not happened that underprivileged people have become famous and privileged ones stayed under the radar, but situational factors naturally have to affect likelihood.

And to just think of it from a statistical standpoint, what is the likelihood that everyone or almost everyone who has ever become famous (during their lifetime or afterwards) had that goal in mind? Surely there must be some variety in the personalities of famous people. Or at least there must be variety in the way souls at different maturity levels incarnate into certain social positions.

As a case study in this area, I present one of my own past lives. I became famous as a general in a war of revolution. While I had a degree of skill, I was also incredibly lucky. Many people assign my motives for participating in this conflict as branching from a desire to be recognized and to prove myself no matter the consequences, as is backed up by the societal expectations surrounding glory at the time and the way my personality often tends to come across. At first I actually believed this idea myself. I have since spent much time working with this life and specifically learning about and examining my motives. What I found was that while I did like the idea of proving myself, my actions were driven even more by other factors: filial piety and a desire to see justice done. A rival noble house had killed off many of my family members and was engaging in what I saw as unscrupulous political activity. And I was righteously indignant about the whole matter. The need to avenge my father and remove a family of 'villains' from a position of political authority drove me to fight and I continued to fight because of these moral reasons that drove me. Though I did enjoy the fame part as well and certainly did not distance myself from it, it was not my primary motivator. And of course, I would not have had the opportunity to take on this role if not for being born into a well-known family that was perfectly situated as the protagonists of a blockbuster movie.
 
Since this thread is about Edgar Cayce, here is his recall of the Last Supper.

"This Psychic Reading was given by Edgar Cayce at the end of
check-physical reading [1315-3], this 14th day of June, 1932,
after suggestion was given three times for EC to wake up.

P R E S E N T

Edgar Cayce; Gertrude Cayce, Conductor; Gladys Davis, Steno.
Mildred Davis and Hugh Lynn Cayce.

R E A D I N G

Time of Reading
11:30 A. M.

1. EC: The Lord's Supper - here with the Master - see what
they had for supper - boiled fish, rice, with leeks, wine,
and loaf. One of the pitchers in which it was served was
broken - the handle was broken, as was the lip to same.

2. The whole robe of the Master was not white, but pearl gray -
all combined into one - the gift of Nicodemus to the Lord.

3. The better looking of the twelve, of course, was Judas, while
the younger was John - oval face, dark hair, smooth face -
only one with the short hair. Peter, the rough and ready -
always that of very short beard, rough, and not altogether
clean; while Andrew's is just the opposite - very sparse,
but inclined to be long more on the side and under the chin
- long on the upper lip - his robe was always near gray
or black, while his clouts or breeches were striped;
while those of Philip and Bartholomew were red and brown.

4. The Master's hair is 'most red, inclined to be curly in
portions, yet not feminine or weak - STRONG, with heavy
piercing eyes that are blue or steel-gray.

5. His weight would be at least a hundred and seventy pounds.
Long tapering fingers, nails well kept. Long nail, though,
on the left little finger.

6. Merry - even in the hour of trial. Joke - even in the moment
of betrayal.

7. The sack is empty. Judas departs.

8. The last is given of the wine and loaf, with which He gives
the emblems that should be so dear to every follower of Him.
Lays aside His robe, which is all of one piece - girds the
towel about His waist, which is dressed with linen that is
blue and white. Rolls back the folds, kneels first before
John, James, then to Peter - who refuses.

9. Then the dissertation as to 'He that would be the greatest
would be servant of all.'

5749-1 Page 2

10. The basin is taken as without handle, and is made of wood.
The water is from the gherkins [gourds], that are in the
wide-mouth Shibboleths [streams? Judges 12:6], that stand
in the house of John's father, Zebedee.

11. And now comes "It is finished."

12. They sing the ninety-first Psalm - "He that dwelleth in the
secret place of the Most High shall abide under the shadow of
the Almighty. I will say of the Lord, He is my refuge and my
fortress: my God; in Him will I trust."

13. He is the musician as well, for He uses the harp.

14. They leave for the garden."
 
Spirit Sword said:
Polaris,

While what you say makes sense (and I tend to agree with much of it), I would note that something about the way you phrased your posts in this thread seemed mildly accusatory in the way it pigeonholed the entirety of famous people into having the desire to become famous to fulfill some insecurity. While this is definitely the case for some people, to my eyes this seems an oversimplification which excludes many forms of fame/infamy. Perhaps in our era of Hollywood, reality TV, etc. most peoples' concept of fame has been shaped by the way society holds up these iconic people who have worked their whole lives merely to make themselves seen. As someone who tends to look at the past a little more than perhaps I should, I tend to think that fame happens equally whether it is your goal or not--you just have to be in the proper circumstances. Most famous people throughout history were born into influential families, and would therefore not have had the same opportunities to become famous had they been born Joe the farmer's son. Joe the farmer's son has little to no chance of becoming a world-famous political leader, no matter his ambition. Whereas a born noble could become infamous for making one small decision in the way that they governed which had no connection to a desire for recognition. That is not to say it has not happened that underprivileged people have become famous and privileged ones stayed under the radar, but situational factors naturally have to affect likelihood.

And to just think of it from a statistical standpoint, what is the likelihood that everyone or almost everyone who has ever become famous (during their lifetime or afterwards) had that goal in mind? Surely there must be some variety in the personalities of famous people. Or at least there must be variety in the way souls at different maturity levels incarnate into certain social positions.

As a case study in this area, I present one of my own past lives. I became famous as a general in a war of revolution. While I had a degree of skill, I was also incredibly lucky. Many people assign my motives for participating in this conflict as branching from a desire to be recognized and to prove myself no matter the consequences, as is backed up by the societal expectations surrounding glory at the time and the way my personality often tends to come across. At first I actually believed this idea myself. I have since spent much time working with this life and specifically learning about and examining my motives. What I found was that while I did like the idea of proving myself, my actions were driven even more by other factors: filial piety and a desire to see justice done. A rival noble house had killed off many of my family members and was engaging in what I saw as unscrupulous political activity. And I was righteously indignant about the whole matter. The need to avenge my father and remove a family of 'villains' from a position of political authority drove me to fight and I continued to fight because of these moral reasons that drove me. Though I did enjoy the fame part as well and certainly did not distance myself from it, it was not my primary motivator. And of course, I would not have had the opportunity to take on this role if not for being born into a well-known family that was perfectly situated as the protagonists of a blockbuster movie.
Click to expand...

Spirit Swords, Interesting that you took my post to be accusatory in the way it pigeonholed the entirety of famous people. That was not my intent. In my opinion and from a souls perceptive is that being famous is just another experience for soul to have as it evolves and grows in spiritual consciousness while learning to master and handle the lower ego. This comes about largely from the karmic make up of that individual soul during the souls stages of young or early mature level of spiritual development. In essence we all must go thru this stage of being during our many soul journeys within the physical plane. So I'm sure at some point we have all been there or in fact perhaps might experience this in some future lifetime down the road who is to say. Once soul has master the lower ego and is connected to the higher self on some conscious level the desire for fame, money, wealth, power and all the materialist allure has lost it punch within the physical world! Because now the soul basically has been there done that. It's ready now to evolve more inwardly and work on inner personally relationships with others and the inner self. Learning to connect to the universe and unravel the secrets of life's bigger questions as to what is reality all about and why am I here? or who am I really? This will move soul onward to other levels of its spiritual development within the late mature and old soul stage of spiritual development. However it could not have arrived here unless it first worked out how to master the lower ego during its earlier stages of it's incarnations as a young or early mature soul. So by stepping back and looking at the bigger picture its all part of the process as we evolve from lifetime to lifetime. That's all that I'm saying. Hope this makes some senses. Thanks for sharing your own personal stories of your own journeys from earlier lifetimes.

Love and peace P.
 
Polaris, I understand and agree with this explanation of the soul's journey. I was merely trying to point out that some people can be famous without being completely within the lowest ego-driven stages of spiritual development. It appears to happen more often that way, but it is not always the case. There are many good and selfless people throughout history who have become famous for things like humanitarian causes. I doubt all of them were driven by ego, and I am sure many of them were looking at life's big questions and tending to interpersonal relationships. I did not mean to contradict your position, rather to flesh it out and present nuance. I am also not saying that I am an incredibly evolved soul either, just that my brushes with fame are an example of complication in this area and that the concepts you presented were not as black and white as I was reading them. I always appreciate your wisdom and willingness to share it.
 
There are also people who are simply pulled along by a creative force, such as musicians or composers. This isn't easy to characterise, it may be an attempt to express the magnificence of an inner vision. It may also be at odds with the need to provide for one's physical needs. Earning a living and taking care of everyday matters may take second place, or be in conflict with the creative urge. Fame or not fame are of little relevance here, in the present day I hear many musicians in small obscure settings with the ability to enrapture an audience. Mostly they don't become famous. But in another time, another place, perhaps they might. I tend to consider fame as of no consequence, it is a trivial matter.
 
Well all I know is that I've had multiple FPLs and I'm not a young soul. I also manifested fame to learn until that lesson had been learnt...then I was anonymous.

I think you make a blanket statement Polaris8, people become famous for many different reasons just like they don't become famous for other reasons.

I know exactly why Alexander isn't famous anymore.
 
Fame and power aren't the same things. They often go together but they are different concepts.

IMHO, I'd argue that souls that seek power are more middle school or early high school aged souls; aggressive, wanting to accumulate for the sake of doing so and for appearances and prestige over others.

As an extension of that, I'd say that fame seekers are much younger souls; they're in the "mine" stage. They simply want and aren't concerned with having the power necessary to take it by force, if need be. They're like kids, running around yelling "but you're not watching!!!".

I think this is the age my friend and former husband Puyi is at. He's very toddler like, even as an adult. In his former life, he kept looking for circumstances that would make him a "grown up" and allow him to have the power he wanted, rather than understanding how to manipulate and orchestrate it like Cixi before him. That's literally how I think he saw things. The "grown ups" have power simply because they're older and he thought by obtaining his manhood, he'd have the same.

That's literally how many kids think. Or used to when I was one, I don't know about kids today. We used to think wearing a tie and dress shoes made us "men".
 
Spirit Sword said:
Polaris, I understand and agree with this explanation of the soul's journey. I was merely trying to point out that some people can be famous without being completely within the lowest ego-driven stages of spiritual development. It appears to happen more often that way, but it is not always the case. There are many good and selfless people throughout history who have become famous for things like humanitarian causes. I doubt all of them were driven by ego, and I am sure many of them were looking at life's big questions and tending to interpersonal relationships. I did not mean to contradict your position, rather to flesh it out and present nuance. I am also not saying that I am an incredibly evolved soul either, just that my brushes with fame are an example of complication in this area and that the concepts you presented were not as black and white as I was reading them. I always appreciate your wisdom and willingness to share it.
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Spirit Swords, Thanks for your reply. I do understand where you are coming from and in fact it was very insightful of you to see this. During these stages of soul development the lower ego must be master by soul in order to grow and mature as a spiritual being. The ego is fact is not a bad thing really but a tool build into man's mental body in order to protect soul while in the lower worlds of duality from harm be it physical, emotional or mental. The lower ego and the present life personality are only temporary in nature during the present life. However over many lifetimes the lower ego does grow and gain experience as it picks up where it left off with each new lifetime lived out. Where the problem lies is that over many lifetimes the mental body (lower ego) grows and becomes over inflated with it's own important' and can in many cases get out of control causing more karmic debit than need be for soul to workout. Which many at first fall into this category while learning to master the ego.

However if the soul can control and connect the ego to the higher self it can be a very useful tool while incarnated into the lower worlds. This is why some souls that are famous have over many lifetimes have tempered the lower ego to obey the higher self and perform things from a humanitarian level where the heart charka is open and connected to all life. Great things then can and do happen one's that is achieved. At this point the soul is ready to move on to it's next level of spiritual development in order to prepare itself to become a spiritual teacher or master in its own rite at the old soul stage of spiritual development. This is the last stage where soul is no longer concerned with the material world anymore but instead is working out all the karmic loose ends from pervious stages before cycling off the reincarnation wheel of birth and death on the physicals plane. So these souls become in many way silent teachers and avatars of sorts. They follow the beat of their own drum and are usually outside the norm of present day society as many see them as aloof. When they do translated the physical they more than likely won't come back but remain in one of the higher dimensions unless they decide come back to aid the human races as a transcendental soul. There have been many souls like this in earth history Jesus, Buddha, Gandhi to name a few. Thanks spirits swords for Seeing the forest through the trees.

Peace and love always. P.
 
"I'll be honest about it. It is not atheists who get stuck in my craw, but agnostics. Doubt is useful for a while. We must all pass through the garden of Gethsemane. If Christ played with doubt, so must we. If Christ spent an anguished night in prayer, if He burst out from the Cross, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?" then surely we are also permitted doubt. But we must move on. To choose doubt as a philosophy of life is akin to choosing immobility as a means of transportation."

The character Pi in Yann Martel's The Life of Pi
 
That's an interesting point of view Ken. I've always preferred agnostics, if they were at peace with knowing they don't know everything. To me that was a logical destination of self awareness.

Atheists got stuck in my craw because the most visible ones tend base their belief in pure contrarianism.

But I suppose the point rings true either way.. Go through your journey and come out the other side. Don't get stuck in the middle.
 
Yea Speedwell. The faces weren't even reconstructed from skulls ( and even with skull facial reconstruction who can be sure? ) but from art. Really who can be sure how much artistic license the original artist took.

Its still interesting however IMO.
 
Polaris8 said:
Interesting post! I used to make fun saying Kim Jong-un is the reincarnated soul of Hitler. Both are ego driven and have little to no empathy for their fellow man. Although I'm sure that is not really true. However most historical figures that have lived in the past are more than likely not going to incarnate into the physical plane anytime soon. Simply because the lower ego being so overly developed has to spend time working things out on the lower to higher mental plane before the soul shed's its mental body and retains full consciousness once again on the causal/soul plane. For it is here that the soul being above, duality, time, space and the cycles of karma will make the decision to incarnate again into the lower worlds of duality if it so choses to do so. In fact your higher self is soul the real you, the eternal you. And yes it is far more aware than the human state of consciousness is. However the two can be connected once the lower ego is under control of the higher self allowing the human consciousness to become enlighten. As the lower ego is under the mind. The lower ego is not a bad thing really. It was designed to protect soul while in the lower worlds of duality and keep us safe from harm be it physical, mental or emotional. However....
Peace and love... P.
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One theory says, that ill behaving people will reincarnate soon again, because they have not developed good organs for taking part on the higher mental levels during their sojourn before the new birth.
 
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