Prison Planet?

[Totoro]

(2) a work-around designed by some force more intent on our imprisonment than advance in order to avoid the system intended by God. That system is, I think, probably a good deal more humane than it is often represented to be.

What made you come to view it this way?

I think the current system is more humane than people give it credit for and I don't understand all the "trap and prison" noise on the internet these days. That's not directed at you personally. I think people are simply resisting both growth and being accountable for their own actions and it's manifesting as angst.

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi Totoro,

Prison Planet: In terms of the "imprisonment" model, what if the opportunities for growth, happiness, and fulfillment are much, much greater by continuing to ascend to higher levels rather than staying on the Merry-go-Round here? Likewise, what if staying on this Merry-go-Round is a way of avoiding accountability and resisting growth--especially for the malevolent forces that imprison us here? That has certainly been proposed by many online, and by some on this board.

Glitch: In terms of the "glitch" model, I found the approach taken by Tomberg in "Meditations on the Tarot: A Journey into Christian Hermeticism" to be very interesting as well. Tomberg was a Theosophist, an Anthroposophist and a brilliant scholar. He was also, after going through the foregoing stages, an extremely devout scholar and practitioner of Christianity. His view seems to be that reincarnation is real but not ideal. It is something that was a product of the "Fall" and possibly necessary because of the Fall. I could go into more detail, and I am not sure I always understand him, but I definitely find him interesting. I also like the fact that his approach is not nearly as frighteningly framed as some of the "Prison Planet" advocates I have read.

Cordially,
S&S

PS--I will probably try to set forth Tomberg's thoughts on reincarnation at some point, but he is a hard man to summarize (and sometimes to understand). So, it may be a while before I get around to it.

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi Totoro,

I feel like I need to say more about the "Prison Planet" idea, mainly to point out that it is merely a modern variation on what has been the default position of various groups believing in reincarnation across time, so it is really nothing new. A variation of the "Prison Planet" idea was ultimately the position of the ancient Gnostics, Western Dualists who strove for liberation from the cycle of transmigration and suffering in this corrupt and debased material realm under its ruling Demiurge (etc.), and ascent to the Divine Realm, etc., etc. (or the like). It was also the position of the medieval Cathars, who saw this planet as a place of misery and imprisonment under the jurisdiction of Satan (or a variation thereof), where they were forced to reincarnate until they could ascend to heaven, the realm of Light and the Good God, via the Consolamentum. BTW, for the Cathars the material realm was Hell. They did not acknowledge any afterlife Hell, this world was it. Interestingly (to me at least), they seem to have initially been moderated dualists (like other Christians), but seemed to have become more-and-more Dualistic/Gnostic during the period of their persecution and ultimate extermination. Turning to the East, the story is much the same, i.e., the goal is Moksha, liberation from the cycle of reincarnation, etc., with Karma stirred in. Quoting from Wikipedia: "Moksha . . . is a term in Jainism, Buddhism, Hinduism, and Sikhism for various forms of emancipation, liberation, nirvana, or release.[4] In its soteriological and eschatological senses, it refers to freedom from saṃsāra, the cycle of death and rebirth and ultimate spiritual liberation from prakriti (nature and matter).[5]"

The point of the foregoing is that the modern "therapeutic" model (my terminology), which casts and explains reincarnation as part of a cosmic system of moral education, growth and sanctification seems to me to be the outlier and exception to what has typically been believed about reincarnation. The folks that whisper or shout about this being a "Prison Planet" as if this idea is something new, have not actually discovered anything new, secret and/or devastatingly important. They are actually just promoting another version of one of the oldest theories of reincarnation and of the lowly status of the material realm in the grand scheme of things.

Cordially,
S&S

 

[baro-san]

Turning to the East, the story is much the same, i.e., the goal is Moksha, liberation from the cycle of reincarnation, etc., with Karma stirred in.

I see this like the lazy student's goal and hope to get out of the cycle of attending school and classes, without having to learn or grow up.

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi Baro-san,

This is definitely a very interesting way of looking at the situation! Of course, it makes all of the great sages of the East and West with their whining about escape from the endless cycle of reincarnation look like errant and lazy schoolboys moping around and griping about the endless cycle of school days. But it is probably the most interesting "take" on an ancient (and revered) viewpoint I have ever heard. In terms of shaking up ancient and dreary pieties and throwing rocks at the graven idols of the past you are definitely knocking it out of the ball park!

One of the reasons I initially jumped on the "therapeutic" bandwagon is that it was such an optimistic and positive way of looking at the situation, especially when compared to my early readings on reincarnation (mostly from Eastern sources). The problem for me, as a Christian, is ultimately that the Biblical evidence is thin or non-existent. Likewise, there are other spiritual explanations for most of the modern experimental evidence (just ask a Swedenborgian or 19th Century Spiritualist). So, I remain torn. But, as the saying goes: "Go Big or Go Home!" If one is going to believe in reincarnation, it might as well be seen in the most positive light possible.

Cordially,
S&S

 

[baro-san]

@SeaAndSky
I appreciate your nice reply

I am far from being on the "therapeutic" bandwagon, but I am positive in my current hypotheses about reality.

 

[SeaAndSky]

Hi Baro-san,

Your last raises the question: What is your "current hypothesis about reality"?

Cordially,
S&S

PS--I sent a PM to Totoro asking if he could shift the last few posts over to a new thread, as I feel like I have unintentionally hijacked Blind_sighted's thread. Plus, this is a topic that deserves its own thread, though I don't know what it should be named: Modern vs. Traditional Views of Reincarnation; The Conflicting Views of Reincarnation; and/or Etc.

[Edit] I just noticed that Totoro has already started the new thread, so I re-posted this one there [here] for response.

 

[SeaAndSky]

In terms of "How Things Work", another idea I think I have seen proposed at one point or another is, in many ways, also a variation on the Prison Planet hypothesis (or maybe a variation on the education/therapeutic model). It can work either way. And, I think it is at least tacitly accepted by many without acknowledging its implications.

Put in simple terms, it goes like this--one is either good enough for Heaven/Higher Planes/etc., bad enough for Hell/Banishment from the process/etc., or stuck in the middle (i.e., stuck in reincarnation).

You can substitute advanced/fully educated/fully evolved, etc. etc. for the "good" side, and another opposite for the "bad" part of the paradigm, the result is the same. I.e., one either (a) passes/succeeds/etc. in what one is supposed to do/achieve/etc. in this realm and advances to the heavenly/advanced/etc. realms, (b) one totally "flunks" out of the process, or (c) one is stuck in the middle = reincarnation in the physical realm.

Of course, this paradigm is also applicable in some form to the eschatology of the Abrahamic religions, with the difference that "the middle" consists of one lifetime rather than multiple lifetimes.

 

[baro-san]

Hi Baro-san,

Your last raises the question: What is your "current hypothesis about reality"?

Cordially,
S&S

My hypotheses are the result of intuitive reflection, and although some of them resonate to some degree with others' beliefs, I amnot not following any spiritual, religious, philosophical system.

For example, I believe that everything I experience is meant for me to interpret intuitively, and with the help of my inner guidance, as deep as I can, to distill an insight that adds to my soul's education and evolvement.

I believe that being a human is a temporary state of my soul, analogously to a student being a temporary state of a person, e.g. a child. So, I am always my soul.

I believe that for me the best source of knowledge and guidance, for my soul's evolvement, is my inner guide; people, sages, systems, all distort knowledge to a much higher degree, and should be used only in as much as they attract my attention and are intuitively interpreted by me.