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Sir John

usetawuz

Senior Registered
I found myself in England and saw a darkened room and looked down on a stone sarcophagus. Upon it was the seemingly cast reclining figure of it's presumed occupant, a knight with beard and tunic, holding a broadsword by the haft with both hands over his chest as the blade draped over the center of his body with its point near his feet which were next to each other, a fact which seemed to have significance. I "heard" Sir John and he died in 1296 at age 46, not in battle. I then felt intense pressure within my stomach.

It was then that I got the negative sense of his missing so many opportunities in that lifetime, including opportunities to provide himself much deserved happiness...this sense of judgment is my signal that I am being critical of a former iteration and examining that life with 20-20 hindsight. The counter to the criticism soon flooded in and depicted a different and more reasonable situation. John was the oldest son of a very well connected and ambitious member of the king's inner circle, and thus, through primogeniture, was the sole heir to father's estate and honorific. Father had to get as much as he could of everything and by default John benefitted, so long as he performed as expected. John was very capable though shared none of father's ambition and search for power, but he knew his role. John studied with abbotts and became a very capable academician reading and writing in latin and greek and taking a deep interest in healing. At 18 he was taken to the royal court and met for the first time and married the daughter of a strategic companion of father's...a loveless marriage which bore several children, again proving John would satisfactorily fulfill his societal and familial obligations. Father died and John continued, honor bound, to maintain his duties to one and all, while his younger brothers lived their lives with happiness which was, for John, not one of the roles he felt he could fulfill.

One aspect of John's early training with the abbotts was the making of medicines and the setting of bones and the stitching of wounds...John used that skill in both the aftermath of battle as well as on his estate, a skill which brought him more happiness than he had experienced in any other endeavor. If his life choice had been left to him, he would have spent it in an effort to heal the physical ailments of all who suffered.

His next younger brother was his closest friend, a very happy and positive man and upon his tragic death, John became increasingly taciturn. While he was revered as a wonderfully compassionate man, and unstinting in his efforts to assist in helping others with his healing talents, he died suddenly of an appendicitis.

The death was a startlingly powerful sense of relief to the soul; the mantle of power was not one he gladly held or desired, thus it was a burden he bore...the practical matter was he was indeed the most capable among his brothers, so to abdicate it would only increase their difficulty, and risk father's wrath. Besides, God put him in that position and he was not one to question the will of God. He accepted that life, and in doing so found good in the healing of others.

My initial impression was that he never took the time to "smell the roses" or to leave his sense of duty long enough to realize the simple beauty surrounding him, but I saw a view through his eyes of a sun rising beyond a hill and it threw the trees along the ridge into stark contrast and each trunk, branch, limb and leaf was so clearly defined and the emotion was almost palpable. The quickly rising sun then highlighted the rolling fields and hedgerows and initiated a deep and calm sense of appreciation.

I awoke to the clock next to me glowing 3:43 am with a mixed sense of satisfaction and relief. I have yet to begin to research Sir John, an English knight and healer from the 13th century who died at 46...any directions and suggestions besides the standard google will be appreciated.
 
I wish i could rememberso many details as you are :)


But don't you remeber place of birth or death of sir John (England it to large territory)?
 
No, I could not place the location, though it was not along a coast line...it has become apparent to me that my primary focus is on the emotions, situation and those I am with...I felt some powerful impressions of recognition for my brother and father, though I haven't yet identified them. The physical details seem to come through synchronistic events and discoveries.
 
Have you tried Burke's Peerage? It may be helpful to you. If you're just looking for free resources, geni.com may be helpful (and other genealogy sites that let you see records for little money or for free). I can try to ask a few people I know who I believe might know about medieval genealogy and historical records for England.


Just for fun, I tried to Google this, and I found a couple of Sir Johns who were possibly 46 or so and died in 1296.


By the way, when you say England -- do you mean England proper or could it also have been Wales or Scotland? I know a lot of people use the terms interchangeably, this is why I'm asking.


I think it's neat that you were able to find out so many details!
 
Thats interesting and says a few things. Ill have to eloborate when im not on my phone
 
Phthalo said:
Just for fun, I tried to Google this, and I found a couple of Sir Johns who were possibly 46 or so and died in 1296.
I put it too, but I couldn't find. Do we have the same internet? ;) I found only sir Jonhs' died in 1296 but in different age than usetawuz said. If it was in the internet he propably would find it first.
 
That's odd! What search terms did you use? I used Sir John 1296 or something along those lines and found one of those results right on the first page. I think that Google gives you the results in a different order depending on your country and previous searches, so maybe that's why. :laugh: The first page result was for someone who was born in 1249, which means they could have been 46 by the time of his death depending on the month.
 
Was there a shield as well? If so, what was on it? Foot positioning of effigies from that time IS important. I'll leave you to figure it out when you are ready . . .
 
Phthalo said:
I think that Google gives you the results in a different order depending on your country and previous searches, so maybe that's why. :laugh:
Probably that's the reason. I'm not in England now.
 
Based on our previous conversations, I think there's quite a few telling things in your story.


First and foremost, you strike me as much of a supportive listener and friend and not as someone who prefers to have a hand in decisive decision making on a large scale (or on ocassion a small one). You also seem to have a preference for working one on one with people as opposed to groups of them. Hence perhaps, John's preference for healing and not commanding or leading.


Therein too, may be the source of our connection. In contrast to you, I seem to have preferred to place my self in critical intersections as a sort of keystone figure. As you said, you strongly felt that we worked together at some point in the past and perhaps this is the combination that made it work.


This also perhaps sheds light on a pattern you may have of just "doing what you're supposed to" and not taking joy in it.


This is an interesting development for you! I encourage you explore it, as it may have been revealed to you now, for a reason.
 
I agree with Totoro that the timing of when a memory is revealed is always important. Blueheart is also correct about clues in the appearance of the effigy. Can you go back for another look? This is where the technology in "Timeline" would be helpful!
 
Thank you everyone...I appreciate your input and I will begin my research.


Blueheart...I do not see a shield, though there was some sort of relief or symbol on the chest of the tunic on the effigy (the term surcingle, or singlet keeps bouncing around in my head...does that sound familiar?). The feet were definitely next to each other and not crossed...I'll research what that means.


I got no indication of whether Sir John fought in the Crusades...I did see him in an open boat at sea with horses aboard briefly...he felt exhilarated.


Phthalo, I am not sure if it was England proper, though that was my first impression...I've spent alot of time in England, Scotland and Wales and it seemed more closely to resemble some parts of England with which I am familiar.


Totoro and BriarRose...I too believe the message and its timing is important. I've got some distinct ideas about both...and thank you!
 
Singlets were definitely worn in the 14th century. I think that they were a sort of vest. A surcingle seems to have been worn by a horse - maybe a blanket? I think that the mount that a knight rode might have worn a kind of blanket with an emblem on it. I am envisioning a knight's horse with the big, red cross on it that we associate with the crusades. I think the saddle blanket had an emblem on it when a knight rode into a joust. In your memory, there were horses, and you felt happy. Maybe you cared about your horses, so the term, surcingle, came into your mind. If I'm right about an emblem being depicted on it, it might have said - "This is who I am". Sorry if I'm wrong - it's been centuries, so my memories are hazy. : angel
 
BriarRose said:
Sorry if I'm wrong - it's been centuries, so my memories are hazy. : angel
This made me laugh BriarRose!


Cryscat, I didn't see a river, but the hills rolled down to what would obviously be at least a stream, or a series of them. I will look up what you describe and see if it resonates.
 
Useta, I think BriarRose is right about the terms. Unfortunately, all of my best Medieval sources are in storage, so I can't be certain.
 
Last night in the same mental place as my original view of Sir John, I asked what his birth date was and immediately "heard" April 23, 1250. Thinking I might be just pulling a rabbit out of a hat, I asked if it might possibly have been in May and in response I received a "visual" of the date reiterated as "April 23, 1250". Beginning to get excited, I asked what his actual date of death was and again heard "in the autumn" and got a mental image of leaves falling from trees. I asked again if I could get the actual date and got the impression of someone shaking their head no, as if it didn't matter and again heard "in the autumn".


If this is accurate, he was roughly 46.5 years old at his death of appendicitis in fall of the year 1296.
 
He was a "goodly" age for his time. He is becoming real to me, Usetawuz, and I have an urge to lay a wreath on his effigy. Someday, you may go and find him, although he is long since dust. Does his lady-wife lie next to him?
 
Maybe he isn't aware of the actual date of his death, he may have suffered and lingered for a while before passing and lost track of time.
 
usetawuz said:
Last night in the same mental place as my original view of Sir John, I asked what his birth date was and immediately "heard" April 23, 1250. Thinking I might be just pulling a rabbit out of a hat, I asked if it might possibly have been in May and in response I received a "visual" of the date reiterated as "April 23, 1250". Beginning to get excited, I asked what his actual date of death was and again heard "in the autumn" and got a mental image of leaves falling from trees. I asked again if I could get the actual date and got the impression of someone shaking their head no, as if it didn't matter and again heard "in the autumn".
If this is accurate, he was roughly 46.5 years old at his death of appendicitis in fall of the year 1296.
This could be your guy? I couldn't find out anything else about him though. The year of death is a few years different, but historical records from the middle ages are not famous for their accuracy, then you've got Gregorian / Julian calendars and goodness knows what which confuses things.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Mowbray

Sir John Deiville Kt (b. 1250, m. 1275, d.1291 at Egmanton, Notts) John married Maud de Mowbray (1255-1312) was born at Pontefract, West Riding of Yorkshire. Children (1st) Sir John Deiville, Kt. (1276-1325). (2nd) Thomas Deiville (b. 1279) Other marriages: James de Audley Kt
 
WOW! Man, you remembered a lot! I find the middle ages fascinating, and had to look online to see what I found. May not be right, but first (and main) thing I kept coming across was results on Ancesty.com for 'Knight Sir John Sayer (1250-1296)' here


Oh, forgot to add - as a previous horse owner, a 'surcingle' is a girth, commonly used for training horses to get used to the pressure of a girth, before putting a saddle on them.
 
Thank you all...I am cataloging your contributions and am going through them as I can.


Emotional information seems to be the recent order of the day rather than specific physical detail...though my previous view of the marriage being loveless appears to be inaccurate...I believe they used the term "love" differently than we do...it appears they had a very close, very productive relationship...the term "keen" was used in describing her...not sure what that means, but I would describe her as sharp, capable, powerful and content...as restricted as John was in his devotion to his duty, she seemed commensurately open in her devotion to her duty...they were both raised to wed strategically, and while she embraced her role he seemed to chafe in his...
 
What do you think her duty was? Our what is the duty you speak, just the marriage?
 
Totoro said:
What do you think her duty was? Our what is the duty you speak, just the marriage?
John's duty was the role of a landowner, esquire and obligor to the king...he was judge, jury and executioner in his feoffment (land he owned) and while he didn't seek it, the responsibility to maintain it fell to him. His father amassed a lot of property and villages and the collection of his share of the tenant's produce was a full time job. His wife's role was to bear children, to produce heirs and assistance, but also to meld the two families interests together and run the household. In essence, while he had the duty to serve the king, and ensure the lands were adequately taxed, her duty was to run the same sort of structure within the household. So her duty was like an "intra" to his "inter"...and hers would have been the same whether she married John or not...while if he wasn't the eldest son, his world would have been entirely different...oh...and John had an older brother who died as a child, so his specific duty was initially unexpected.


English common law was established in 1066, making everything based on land ownership. While the king owned everything, the knight got land in return for the knight's service, and the service of his tenant farmers and tradesmen, so long as he would make it productive and pay the king with a portion of the produce of his tenants...the knight would pass the lands down to his eldest son (primogeniture) from generation to generation, or with no heir, the land would escheat (return) to the king, who would then re-grant it to someone who would properly maintain it. Pure feudalism. Surprisingly, or not, while in law school I received the highest grade possible in the class for property and contracts law. I felt I could have taught the class and it was as if I knew it already, and I guess on some level, I did. I had another pl in which I was a property lawyer and wrote statutes in the United States, one of which was the elimination of primogeniture and fee tail, so some things just don't change much...at least in a thousand years!


While I have had brief views and great familiarity with the UK and England in particular, this is the first past life that has come to my consciousness.
 
It's interesting that Sir John honoured his obligations, and that sense of duty has followed you in to this life. That you experienced other lives in which you dealt with property law and primogeniture, is a a good piece of validation. If I'm not mistaken, you lived a life in the last century where you were bound by the obligations that come with being a rich man's son and heir.
 
Here's a question .. Do you think (or feel) it was me you were married to, then? I will say having read what you've written so far, something has "clicked" to an extent.


I know from most of your personal story though that you're group you're with now is whom most of your adventures and roles have revolved around.


But I think it's quite well within reason that we have some ancient link and then for some reason, we went on separate paths. Perhaps ending in the 19th century?
 
Yes, BriarRose, seemingly moving from the practical function of feudalism to ending it in the US to having half the primary classes in the first year of law school veritably handed to me due to familiarity all point to an amazing coincidence, a concept in which I don't believe...and the duty of societal obligations can also be unbearable. Which bears further scrutiny...bound by duty and fulfilled it at the cost of my happiness, later ended an obligation to fulfill societal duty in 1905 and now...what? More pondering is necessary.


Totoro...you pose an interesting question and in short, I don't know. I sensed some current familiarity with the wife, younger brother and father, though the father's "buzz" was not warm while the other two were. It is possible you could have played either "close role" though I haven't gotten anything specific yet.


As for playing roles outside our current soul groups, I certainly believe it is possible to have been consistently involved with "neighboring souls" over a continued timeframe. I once met a woman at a two week class who sat behind me. From the first day our conversation flowed both in class and out and we were simply comfortable with each others company. We parted and have not been in touch since, but the comfort and familarity is a pleaseure to recall to this day. In my akashic records I found she was a soul mate from a neighboring group and we completed all our karma over a long series of lives and now simply have a great affection for each other. And it was nice to see her again!
 
I have, unexpectedly, found myself revisiting the "place" in my mind which brought me to Sir John's acquaintance...not so much that I have had visions of him, but rather, I have been able to find out more about him.


In my near sleep state, I sensed John and asked where he was born and got "Nottingham" or "Nottingham...shire"...though that wasn't terribly clear. I don't know if there is such a place as "Nottinghamshire" but the message was garbled somehow and I got no more along those lines.


I asked if I knew his wife now or would I meet her/him in this lifetime...I received a view of John's wife...a woman with long wavy reddish/blond hair, green bright eyes and a fair complexion prone to freckle, with a pleasing, quick smile and got the impression of "your sister" or "like your sister". My sister is a confident, strong and capable woman who was my chief rival growing up...more because of her desire to beat me, than my actually engaging with her! I am aware of two past lives with her in which we were brothers, so her involvement in John's life wouldn't be odd. I reiterated my question as to whether John's wife is now my sister or if I might know her and was treated to an interesting view of a silhouette which appeared to be moving, but was never defined enough to recognize and got the impression I would find out at some point.


I was previously made aware that Sir John died in the autumn and I once more asked if I could know a date of his death and received an instant response of "November 11, 1296". Once more, questioning the impression I got I inanely asked if it wasn't possibly "December 11?" and received a written view of "November 11, 1296" on a sort of banner with first a view of leaves falling from a tree, then overlayed with another view of a bare tree covered with snow which was then seemingly wiped away and replaced again with the leaves falling from the tree...got it...November in autumn instead of December in winter.


I asked if there was a clearer view I could get into how Sir John's life affects me in my current lifetime and got a replay of the initial view of a man bound by his duty and not focused on obtaining any happiness in this lifetime as a result of that duty. It was identical to the previous "commentary" I received, but like the impression I initially got regarding the "loveless marriage" which I realized was not the case, I believe I am missing something in the "translation" of the view I am obtaining. While I feel I am intended to find a balance between duty and happiness in this lifetime, I sense something more which I am so far unable to put my finger on...some understanding deeper than simply "stop and smell the roses".


I have discussed the impressions I have gotten with some friends and one of them noted that Sir John's birthday of April 23rd would have been on the Julian calendar which when converted to the Gregorian calendar is April 30th...my current birthday!


The "interview" seemed to draw to a close with a series of impressions of Sir John as a healer and I heard the term "the healer knight" several times and got the impression he was intent on providing healing for those in need.
 
Nottinghamshire is a county in the East Midlands. Nottingham is the county town (ie, the main commercial and law-centre for the county). Its one of the more historic counties of England.
 
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