cloud potato
Armored Nimbus floating in these Fields of Dreams
Thanks baro-san~
The Urantia Book
- Thread starter cloud potato
- Start date
-
- Tags
- book faith jesus religion spirituality
Would you elaborate on your understanding of "happening simultaneously"? What do you mean by "Now"?
cloud potato
Armored Nimbus floating in these Fields of Dreams
Hi baro-san,
The quote you have there is a bit out of context. The word simultaneously as it was used in the previous entry was to describe the manner in which I experienced the data being presented- where things or, data, I ordinarily think of as 'outside' my 'self' acknowledge the things/data happening at a thought level. Simultaneously can mean instantaneously- occurring at the same time or maybe near-instantaneously. Close enough that I'd choose this word as I share my experience.
The now as I am beginning to understand it, is not just a 'moment in time' but a living intelligence. I even go as far as considering it a personality.
Keeping the thread and my reply oriented to the title -
Here is a wonderful resource you may find useful:
www.urantiabooktutor.com
^ AI tool to help you, or anyone interested, in studying the book and explore concepts like the TA (thought adjuster).
....Side tangent y'all- I heard just today AI called, "adaptive intelligence" rather than "artificial intelligence" since we as creators shape the queries with our intent. Interesting !
And, I would also like to add that I currently have two schools of thought that are not necessarily at odds-ends with each other.
One is the belief that All is God. So if one were to say all is self, I am happy to consider this statement through personal experience.
A wise man has said, "Forms are many. Soul is One." I am also aligned with this statement made by my sufi friend: "There is only one virtue and one sin for a soul on the path. Virtue when is conscious of God, Sin when he is not."
At the same time, I recognize I am receiving guidance and experiencing events that are outside of my conscious control. These two realities do not have to "fight" each other. I acknowledge the human expression as vast as it is limited. It is real, and is not all there is. And there is something deeper communicating with.
Something incredible happened yesterday, where data being presented(again) served as a means towards expanding/exploring God/Self and the Nature of Reality... There's what I think I know about reality and then there's being shown incredible depths I had never known/considered-
I don't feel it pertinent to go into all the details- I will say according to the 1111 community midwayers are known to utilize electronics to get our attention. Last night was the first and only time I've witnessed the volume knob in my car move on its own. I knew something was testing my ability to receive... And more important, the presence I felt while this was happening was actually frightening. I was in a state of shock and almost angry because I was not ready for the realness of what was making itself known to me. I hardened my own presence to brush off what was happening. But once I closed my self off to what was happening, I realized there was nothing to fear. The song that was playing, when this presence made itself known to me, was this:
Earlier in the night I saw a license plate that read TAYFUN. Relative to where I am at(mentally) It felt like the message was "T.A. FUN" That my thought adjuster would be having some fun with me.
As it pertains to contact with a superior intelligence, where invisible entities may choose to make themselves visible to us- I think this requires a lot of work to establish- and I think the "Guide" or "Guides" are incredibly patient. Incredibly patient. I mean, if something were to appear next to me out of thin air in my bedroom where I think I am alone- I would probably have a heart attack. As a child I was scared by contact, where an invisible entity whispered into my ear. I could feel her breath as real as anything. I shut it down and she left me alone. But years later, I wanted to try again.
The quote you have there is a bit out of context. The word simultaneously as it was used in the previous entry was to describe the manner in which I experienced the data being presented- where things or, data, I ordinarily think of as 'outside' my 'self' acknowledge the things/data happening at a thought level. Simultaneously can mean instantaneously- occurring at the same time or maybe near-instantaneously. Close enough that I'd choose this word as I share my experience.
The now as I am beginning to understand it, is not just a 'moment in time' but a living intelligence. I even go as far as considering it a personality.
Keeping the thread and my reply oriented to the title -
Here is a wonderful resource you may find useful:
Urantia Book Tutor
www.urantiabooktutor.com
^ AI tool to help you, or anyone interested, in studying the book and explore concepts like the TA (thought adjuster).
....Side tangent y'all- I heard just today AI called, "adaptive intelligence" rather than "artificial intelligence" since we as creators shape the queries with our intent. Interesting !
And, I would also like to add that I currently have two schools of thought that are not necessarily at odds-ends with each other.
One is the belief that All is God. So if one were to say all is self, I am happy to consider this statement through personal experience.
A wise man has said, "Forms are many. Soul is One." I am also aligned with this statement made by my sufi friend: "There is only one virtue and one sin for a soul on the path. Virtue when is conscious of God, Sin when he is not."
At the same time, I recognize I am receiving guidance and experiencing events that are outside of my conscious control. These two realities do not have to "fight" each other. I acknowledge the human expression as vast as it is limited. It is real, and is not all there is. And there is something deeper communicating with.
Something incredible happened yesterday, where data being presented(again) served as a means towards expanding/exploring God/Self and the Nature of Reality... There's what I think I know about reality and then there's being shown incredible depths I had never known/considered-
I don't feel it pertinent to go into all the details- I will say according to the 1111 community midwayers are known to utilize electronics to get our attention. Last night was the first and only time I've witnessed the volume knob in my car move on its own. I knew something was testing my ability to receive... And more important, the presence I felt while this was happening was actually frightening. I was in a state of shock and almost angry because I was not ready for the realness of what was making itself known to me. I hardened my own presence to brush off what was happening. But once I closed my self off to what was happening, I realized there was nothing to fear. The song that was playing, when this presence made itself known to me, was this:
Earlier in the night I saw a license plate that read TAYFUN. Relative to where I am at(mentally) It felt like the message was "T.A. FUN" That my thought adjuster would be having some fun with me.
As it pertains to contact with a superior intelligence, where invisible entities may choose to make themselves visible to us- I think this requires a lot of work to establish- and I think the "Guide" or "Guides" are incredibly patient. Incredibly patient. I mean, if something were to appear next to me out of thin air in my bedroom where I think I am alone- I would probably have a heart attack. As a child I was scared by contact, where an invisible entity whispered into my ear. I could feel her breath as real as anything. I shut it down and she left me alone. But years later, I wanted to try again.
cloud potato
Armored Nimbus floating in these Fields of Dreams
Here's the UB Tutor elaborating on the TA:
@cloud potato
I believe that you are on a "progressive"
path, and I think that what slows you down now is your current system of beliefs, some of which you are not aware of being just beliefs, not truths. As some say, and I agree with: my only truth is that "I am" (being aware of my existing).
I learned that about myself too, and I began intentionally putting aside all my beliefs and expectations when I contact my inner source of knowledge and guidance. This allowed me to eliminate some distortions, see things from a different perspective, and realize that knowledge comes only from within, not from others or dogmas.
At some point, I felt that I made a leap from looking from one side of a border to looking from the other side of the border, from looking up to looking down, from considering myself as this physical-being having an inner side, to considering myself as that inner-being having a physical side.
To me, it seems that you currently struggle to interpret, adjust, and fit knew pieces of inner knowledge with your existing system of beliefs; instead, try to interpret, adjust, and fit elements of your current system of beliefs, including what you consider as truths, with the new inner knowledge. It is an iterative process, with back and forth. And that is good because fractionation pushes you further and further, deeper and deeper with every iteration, toward your purpose (you have to have a purpose to "progress").
When I read a quote like the ones you posted, I don't attempt much to understand what the author said, nor to guess what he might've meant to say, but (leaving aside my beliefs and expectations) I identify what attracts my attention, and I intuitively interpret that as deep as I can, drawing some guidance, a lesson, that may be new, a confirmation, or an adjustment.
I believe that you are on a "progressive"
path, and I think that what slows you down now is your current system of beliefs, some of which you are not aware of being just beliefs, not truths. As some say, and I agree with: my only truth is that "I am" (being aware of my existing).I learned that about myself too, and I began intentionally putting aside all my beliefs and expectations when I contact my inner source of knowledge and guidance. This allowed me to eliminate some distortions, see things from a different perspective, and realize that knowledge comes only from within, not from others or dogmas.
At some point, I felt that I made a leap from looking from one side of a border to looking from the other side of the border, from looking up to looking down, from considering myself as this physical-being having an inner side, to considering myself as that inner-being having a physical side.
To me, it seems that you currently struggle to interpret, adjust, and fit knew pieces of inner knowledge with your existing system of beliefs; instead, try to interpret, adjust, and fit elements of your current system of beliefs, including what you consider as truths, with the new inner knowledge. It is an iterative process, with back and forth. And that is good because fractionation pushes you further and further, deeper and deeper with every iteration, toward your purpose (you have to have a purpose to "progress").
When I read a quote like the ones you posted, I don't attempt much to understand what the author said, nor to guess what he might've meant to say, but (leaving aside my beliefs and expectations) I identify what attracts my attention, and I intuitively interpret that as deep as I can, drawing some guidance, a lesson, that may be new, a confirmation, or an adjustment.
cloud potato
Armored Nimbus floating in these Fields of Dreams
Thanks for your interest and care baro-san ~for sharing your self honestly too
I will add, I am definitely enjoying the ride.
I will add, I am definitely enjoying the ride.
I’ve been turning the Urantia material over in my head for a while, and here’s where I land — in plain language.Just sharing a book in order to provide some contribution to the forum activity. I'm not sure I agree with everything in this book, but it is one that has been a topic of much study and interest by those in my circles.
>>>
The Urantia Book portrays our relationship with God the Father. All human beings are the sons and daughters of a loving God and therefore brothers and sisters in the family of God. The book provides new spiritual truth for modern men and women and a pathway to a personal relationship with God.
Building on the world's religious heritage, The Urantia Book describes an endless destiny for humankind, teaching that living faith is the key to personal spiritual progress and eternal survival. It also describes God’s plan for the progressive evolution of individuals, human society, and the universe as a whole.
“There is in the mind of God a plan which embraces every creature of all his vast domains, and this plan is an eternal purpose of boundless opportunity, unlimited progress, and endless life. . . . The goal of eternity is ahead! . . . Certain victory will crown the efforts of every human being who will run the race of faith and trust.”
32:5.7-8 (365.3)
At its core the Papers give a narrative that explains a lot of human suffering as the long fallout from the Lucifer/Rebellion episode, and they use that backdrop to teach a practical spiritual ethic. Two ideas stick with me: first, the distinction between true liberty and false liberty (Paper 54). True liberty, the book argues, grows out of self-mastery and service to others; false liberty is license and self-assertion that ultimately harms community. That’s useful because it turns an abstract doctrine into a day-to-day test: does my freedom increase the freedom and flourishing of others, or diminish it?
Second, UB’s emphasis on the religion of Jesus (not only a religion about Jesus) is meaningful. The Papers consistently press for an inward, lived relationship with the divine—an indwelling presence that changes how you act, not just what you say. For me that’s more compelling than theological hair-splitting: the measure of a teaching is the character and service it produces.
On reincarnation: the UB doesn’t support the common idea of serial rebirths on Urantia. Instead it describes survival and progression on the mansion worlds — a forward ascension rather than repeated Earth returns (see Papers on morontia and mansion worlds). That said, I don’t think that automatically invalidates people’s past-life experiences. Many of those experiences can still be genuine data — symbolic memories, overlapping consciousness phenomena, or impressions from other levels of the personality — and UB gives frameworks for interpreting those phenomena without defaulting to the “same personality returns” model. So practically speaking the two views aren’t irreconcilable where the lived fruit is the test: continuity, moral growth, healing, and service.
Bottom line: whether you prefer a reincarnation model or UB’s ascension model, the practical takeaway is the same: cultivate humility and self-control, test spiritual claims by their fruits in your life and relationships, and make your “religion” an inward, lived thing that nudges you toward service rather than self-aggrandizement.
cloud potato
Armored Nimbus floating in these Fields of Dreams
Wow, thank you Chuck.
I really appreciate your thoughts.
Eric
PS,
Yes I think there is more to experiencing self than solely through sense-body identification, I align with your thoughts on reincarnation. I believe it is all genuine data.
I really appreciate your thoughts.
Eric
PS,
Yes I think there is more to experiencing self than solely through sense-body identification, I align with your thoughts on reincarnation. I believe it is all genuine data.
Last edited:
cloud potato
Armored Nimbus floating in these Fields of Dreams
I like these quotes on Truth:
"The religion of Jesus broke all national restrictions and racial fetters. It is forever true, 'Where the spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.' On this day the Spirit of Truth became the personal gift from the Master to every mortal." (194:3.5)
"Divine truth is a spirit-discerned and living reality... You can know the truth, and you can live the truth; you can experience the growth of truth in the soul and enjoy the liberty of its enlightenment in the mind, but you cannot imprison truth in formulas, codes, creeds, or intellectual patterns of human conduct. Static truth is dead truth, and only dead truth can be held as a theory. Living truth is dynamic and can enjoy only an experiential existence in the human mind." (180:5.2)
"The acceptance of such a teaching, Jesus declared, would liberate man from the age-long bondage of animal fear and at the same time enrich human living with the following endowments of the new life of spiritual liberty..." (170:2.1)
Perplexity.ai:
"Jesus, as depicted in The Urantia Book, teaches that truth is a dynamic, living reality best experienced and expressed through life rather than defined merely by words or dogma. He emphasizes that truth transcends knowledge; knowledge pertains to facts and observation, while truth is tied to spiritual experience, wisdom, and reality values."
"The religion of Jesus broke all national restrictions and racial fetters. It is forever true, 'Where the spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.' On this day the Spirit of Truth became the personal gift from the Master to every mortal." (194:3.5)
"Divine truth is a spirit-discerned and living reality... You can know the truth, and you can live the truth; you can experience the growth of truth in the soul and enjoy the liberty of its enlightenment in the mind, but you cannot imprison truth in formulas, codes, creeds, or intellectual patterns of human conduct. Static truth is dead truth, and only dead truth can be held as a theory. Living truth is dynamic and can enjoy only an experiential existence in the human mind." (180:5.2)
"The acceptance of such a teaching, Jesus declared, would liberate man from the age-long bondage of animal fear and at the same time enrich human living with the following endowments of the new life of spiritual liberty..." (170:2.1)
Perplexity.ai:
"Jesus, as depicted in The Urantia Book, teaches that truth is a dynamic, living reality best experienced and expressed through life rather than defined merely by words or dogma. He emphasizes that truth transcends knowledge; knowledge pertains to facts and observation, while truth is tied to spiritual experience, wisdom, and reality values."
cloud potato
Armored Nimbus floating in these Fields of Dreams
Wow, utilizing AI has been really helpful with understanding the Urantia Book-
I had to do a double take but this little statement from the book is really blowing my mind...
"The spiritual growth of the soul takes place wholly independently of the intellectual self-consciousness." 5:3.7 (66.3)
Paper 5 'God's Relation to the Individual'
I have always seen the material and spiritual as intimately linked. And while that may be true, I think this passage is suggesting that spiritual reality is also an entirely stand alone reality. It's hard to imagine as one so identified with his mortal self. As one who identifies with the, 'thinking' and 'feeling.' And the book says we are encouraged to grow through our human relationships. But this statement suggest personal growth and spiritual growth are not necessarily the same thing.
Here I am thinking it is the culmination of life experience responsible for spiritual growth- but again the passage says despite these things, spiritual growth happens and takes place beyond intellectual or conscious reasoning.
message too long for one post:
I had to do a double take but this little statement from the book is really blowing my mind...
"The spiritual growth of the soul takes place wholly independently of the intellectual self-consciousness." 5:3.7 (66.3)
Paper 5 'God's Relation to the Individual'
I have always seen the material and spiritual as intimately linked. And while that may be true, I think this passage is suggesting that spiritual reality is also an entirely stand alone reality. It's hard to imagine as one so identified with his mortal self. As one who identifies with the, 'thinking' and 'feeling.' And the book says we are encouraged to grow through our human relationships. But this statement suggest personal growth and spiritual growth are not necessarily the same thing.
Here I am thinking it is the culmination of life experience responsible for spiritual growth- but again the passage says despite these things, spiritual growth happens and takes place beyond intellectual or conscious reasoning.
message too long for one post:
cloud potato
Armored Nimbus floating in these Fields of Dreams
Perplexity.ai tried to help me by creating this table...
Summary Table
Summary Table
| Aspect | Intellectual Consciousness | Spiritual Growth (Soul) |
| Nature | Rational, analytical, self-aware thinking | Unconscious, inner transformation, beyond reasoning |
| Stimulus | Learning, reasoning, self-reflection | Prayer, faith, love, divine presence interaction |
| Result | Knowledge, self-awareness, decisions | Character growth, joy, love, spiritual maturity |
| Example | Studying theology, philosophical reflection | Feeling divine peace through prayer without analysis |
| Focus | Mind, mental processes | Heart, soul connection to divine presence |
This is compatible with my hypothetic model of reality.
Quite a dense paragraph.
An analogy: a kid attends school; while there, he is a pupil. The pupil takes classes; during classes, he learns lessons. One lesson is reading Shakespeare's "Hamlet". The pupil gets immersed in the story; he identifies with Hamlet. He shares Hamlet's emotions, thoughts hopes, story; he is Hamlet. He forgot he's a pupil; he forgot he's a kid. When the pupil takes brakes he remember he's a pupil, a kid; eventually, he "wakes up" when the story is over; he gets back to being a kid when he leaves the school.
The kid is your "evolving immortal soul".
The Hamlet character as experienced by the pupil, "your human personality", is "your mind of material limitations", "your intellectual self-consciousness", this you.
Last edited:
cloud potato
Armored Nimbus floating in these Fields of Dreams
Thanks baro-san, it makes sense. I think the full quote is saying(as well) that sincere worship is an attribute of the evolving, immortal soul personality.
That human capacity could never fully explain what that looks like or means. This implies to me something wider and more inclusive than any solitary approach, attitude or methodology concerning worship.
I believe the UB encourages us to recognize our fraternity with each other and to utilize our time here on earth to grow, spiritually.
My current belief is that I am both physical and something more... One is changing and subject to death and another is... well
My current learning and discovery is to see the eternal and its values shining through the material reality I find myself indwelling.
What intrigues me is that something which is eternal, and able to speak through all creation, *IS guiding me towards discovery/learning...
I appreciate the Seth quote. = )
That human capacity could never fully explain what that looks like or means. This implies to me something wider and more inclusive than any solitary approach, attitude or methodology concerning worship.
I believe the UB encourages us to recognize our fraternity with each other and to utilize our time here on earth to grow, spiritually.
My current belief is that I am both physical and something more... One is changing and subject to death and another is... well
My current learning and discovery is to see the eternal and its values shining through the material reality I find myself indwelling.
What intrigues me is that something which is eternal, and able to speak through all creation, *IS guiding me towards discovery/learning...
I appreciate the Seth quote. = )
Last edited:
It is guiding you the pupil, not you the lesson character. Your soul is eternal too, and in their ways your personality and its physical role are eternal too.
Surely, the right way to look at all this is only the way your inner guidance nudges you to. The difficulty is that you get it through the filters of your beliefs, emotions, focus, so you have to deliberately put those aside to get clear and accurate guidance.
The way I see it, as described above, is that you are a kid enrolled in an educational framework, guided by a teacher; you are a pupil immersed in a lesson.
Last edited:
You're absolutely right. We're so embeded in ego, emotion and incarnation itself, we often miss what was meant for us as guidence. The porocess of learning and awakening often happens when one is trully ready to let go.
Most people resist this, because they are so attatched to their identities and even experiences they internalize as identities, they push away or ignore anything that doesn't appear to match that.
But what most people don't understand is that the core "you" doesn't change. You don't have to give that up.. but you may be missing out on being guided to something more aligned with you as a person and that could ultimately be more fulfilling for you, if you didn't dismiss the images, messages, synchronicities and other guidance that is meant for you, because you hold too tightly to your "image".
A basic example of this is suppose there's an opening at work and someone suggests that you should apply for it. Rather than internalize the nod of ackoweldment from the coworker, you instead listen to old internal scripts of self doubt, which you rationlize by saying things like "I've always done this job! It was good enough for my dad and it's good enough for me!" and you stay in your current loops, even if they don't make you happy.
A lot of thinking systems emphasize stillness, to clear the mind of ego, but all you really need to learn to do is learn stillness to clear you mind and then listen to what comes to you.. it make take the form of images, ideas, impressions, feeelings or even a direct voice. You may want to listen to them and consider what they have to say.
At the end of the day, you're still you, but if you can listen to the nudges, you will eventually become a more whole, fulfilled you.
cloud potato
Armored Nimbus floating in these Fields of Dreams
Exploring Urantia Book Lore & Cosmology
A channeled message by Valdir Soares.
The being coming through is known as a, "Life Carrier."
"Life Carriers in The Urantia Book are a special order of universe Sons who design, initiate, and foster biological life on evolutionary worlds. They are portrayed as the beings responsible for adapting life patterns to local planetary conditions and overseeing their development up to a certain stage."
"The Urantia Book teaches that Life Carriers are created by the local Creator Son, the Universe Mother Spirit, and, by designation, one of the Ancients of Days, making them a unique type of divine sonship. They are said to be entrusted with planning life patterns, organizing life plasm, and implanting these patterns on suitable planets, either by bringing life plasm with them or by organizing it on-site according to pre-approved formulas."
Urantia is the name celestial personalities use for Earth. The book is spoken from their cosmic perspective.
"Regarding Urantia specifically, The Urantia Book describes it as a 'life-modification' or 'decimal' world, where Life Carriers were permitted to introduce experimental variations in the standard life designs. The text states that all native life on Urantia (apart from non-native personalities) originates from three simultaneous marine life implantations planned and executed by the Life Carriers in cooperation with spiritual and superphysical forces."
Quoted materials found here: https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book-standardized/paper-36-life-carriers
https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book-standardized/paper-58-life-establishment-urantia
The channeled message:
You lit a Flame, and it will become a Raging Fire — ABC-22.
http://www.1111angels.net
A channeled message by Valdir Soares.
The being coming through is known as a, "Life Carrier."
"Life Carriers in The Urantia Book are a special order of universe Sons who design, initiate, and foster biological life on evolutionary worlds. They are portrayed as the beings responsible for adapting life patterns to local planetary conditions and overseeing their development up to a certain stage."
"The Urantia Book teaches that Life Carriers are created by the local Creator Son, the Universe Mother Spirit, and, by designation, one of the Ancients of Days, making them a unique type of divine sonship. They are said to be entrusted with planning life patterns, organizing life plasm, and implanting these patterns on suitable planets, either by bringing life plasm with them or by organizing it on-site according to pre-approved formulas."
Urantia is the name celestial personalities use for Earth. The book is spoken from their cosmic perspective.
"Regarding Urantia specifically, The Urantia Book describes it as a 'life-modification' or 'decimal' world, where Life Carriers were permitted to introduce experimental variations in the standard life designs. The text states that all native life on Urantia (apart from non-native personalities) originates from three simultaneous marine life implantations planned and executed by the Life Carriers in cooperation with spiritual and superphysical forces."
Quoted materials found here: https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book-standardized/paper-36-life-carriers
https://www.urantia.org/urantia-book-standardized/paper-58-life-establishment-urantia
The channeled message:
© The 11:11 Progress Group.
You lit a Flame, and it will become a Raging Fire — ABC-22.
http://www.1111angels.net