I know, I witnessed some of these aspects in my former life. Still, I wouldn't hesitate to go back if I could. I once tried to look at this movie but I couldn't. It didn't fit with my own memories and the restlessness of the movie disturbed me.
Mayan Memories
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Cyrus
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It's so much easier to be one of the torturers than one of the tortured.
There is an error in the film "Apocalypto", at the very end: my ancestors had nothing to do with the end of that unkind civilization:
It ceased to exist by itself or by natural causes (climate change, they say) centuries before the first Spaniards appeared there.
There is an error in the film "Apocalypto", at the very end: my ancestors had nothing to do with the end of that unkind civilization:
It ceased to exist by itself or by natural causes (climate change, they say) centuries before the first Spaniards appeared there.
A lot of cities were abandoned before the conquistadores came to conquer. I think there were multiple problems. I've read about toxic pollution, drought, and the possible depletion of agricultural fields. And who knows, maybe some diseases as well. But even when the cities were abandoned, there were still people remaining and the Maya people didn't extinct.
And other cities still remained populated in the 16th century.
And other cities still remained populated in the 16th century.
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Cyrus
Senior Registered
Hi, everybody:
I cannot find a film I saw in youtube about 10 years ago (in Italian) about a group of young North-American tourists who went to spend their holidays on top of an ancient Mayan pyramid. A lot of usual hippy stuff, a lot of sex, talks about nothing etc. In the end they were attacked by some kind of very aggressive exotic ants and had to descend that pyramid in a hurry, only to be almost killed by the Indians who waited for them at the foot of the pyramid, already aware of what would have happened to those 'gringoes'.
It looks like the Maya were kind of damned when their civilization fell. Their discoveries in astronomy were really astounding. They knew even about the phases of Venus without telescopes, The duration of the Venerian year even entered somehow into some of their astronomical calculations, as if they themselves had once descended from Venus.
It's a theme one can dedicate lots of hours and days without getting bored...
IMHO
I cannot find a film I saw in youtube about 10 years ago (in Italian) about a group of young North-American tourists who went to spend their holidays on top of an ancient Mayan pyramid. A lot of usual hippy stuff, a lot of sex, talks about nothing etc. In the end they were attacked by some kind of very aggressive exotic ants and had to descend that pyramid in a hurry, only to be almost killed by the Indians who waited for them at the foot of the pyramid, already aware of what would have happened to those 'gringoes'.
It looks like the Maya were kind of damned when their civilization fell. Their discoveries in astronomy were really astounding. They knew even about the phases of Venus without telescopes, The duration of the Venerian year even entered somehow into some of their astronomical calculations, as if they themselves had once descended from Venus.
It's a theme one can dedicate lots of hours and days without getting bored...
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Interesting remark but I might disagree. When you are the one who inflicts pain on others, your soul must be highly individualistic, closed from empathy, or have a split personality. You're not in a healthy place being a 'torturer'. Our natural state of being is full of love, curiosity, excited about the world around us.
These last couple of days have learned me a few more things. Since that spontaneous flash-back into the body and the eyes of my former self (entering a marketplace in an ancient Maya place), I got 'hooked' again. Wanted to go back more often, and unravel some loose ends.
My loose ends were: why? why me? How was life before the age of seven in that life? Who was my grandfather? How did they know what day it was, living in a jungle? Did they prepare me for my fate? Why was I allowed to be in that gathering? I felt so proud as if not every kid was invited.
Twice, I did a self-regression trying to go back to my former 7-year-old me in that time. That was not easy. I didn't get hardly any visuals or information. That's why I tried two times (with one or two days apart). I only saw a lot of fragments without coherence. As usual, I saw trees, trees and more trees. Sometimes my eyes followed a monkey climbing branches. I saw quite a few vultures. Flying, or high up in trees and one time walking on top of a peak.
It seems that I can only recall scenes that contained some emotion or interest from me at that time. Suddenly, I saw myself on a trunk of a tree, head bowed down, while an older lady combed my hair in search of little animals on my head. Not pleasant.
I saw a fragment of a wooden bowl with liquid white paint and my arms in it, so the skin of my underarms was painted white (no clue what so ever this was about). I saw the hand of a grown-up with a small curled furry mammal in it, with his belly upwards. My interest was totally into its little, perfect claws and its long, curled nails.
I experienced myself as a thin child with almost no weight. Somebody put me on branches to climb a tree or pick me up later. There was a grown adult with me this time. I guess it was the same one who later in life would carry me outside of the family circle. At first, I thought it was an older brother, but now I think he was just my young father. He had so much joy in me. One moment we went to a higher place, like a hill or a mountainside. We watched the sun go down and then gazed at the stars.
The special thing here was that I have the feeling this was his 'job' and he took me with him for some entertaining and quality time. From that place, you could have a good look at another point/higher place, quite far away. As if there was a communication network between multiple settlements, day and night. Not so weird if you take into consideration that this might have happened in the first half of the sixteenth century. I also saw a great bell made of metal, maybe to be used in case of emergency. Just a guess. I checked, and the Mayans did have bells made of copper.
Anyway, I saw a lot of random scenes. Including little me climbing into narrow caves. I had the feeling they let me go there, searching for bones and skeletons because I was so small and weightless and serious. I've also seen two scenes in which I saw people from another culture. Not white people, just 'not us'. The first man was dressed in a bright-colored green cloth from his waist down to the ground. His hair was short/cut, not like 'our' long hair. I guess I stared at him in disbelief and he kind of almost rolled his eyes and looked back with a mocking grin.
The other 'stranger' was actually a native Indian but from a faraway tribe. He performed a dance on his own, near the shore of a lake. He impersonated a flying eagle. Also this time, I stared and wondered.
Maybe people who came for trade. I don't know yet.
Because these visions or memories didn't bring me much more than just some random scenes, I then decided to do a kind of open meditation. Asking for more insight, for some personal assistance. I can't recall exactly how this went. I was formulating questions, got distracted in my mind, went back to my initial intention and so on. And then slowly I entered a kind of flow of insights. The energy of this male adult reminded me of my oldest son. The one who was so happy with his little daughter and the one who handed her over to her fatal destiny. I kind of felt his pain so much. Then realized what happened in another former life, in which I was the mother and he was my son, who went away to die on a battlefield against the Germans (19th century). I was the one left behind and couldn't face life anymore.
Then I realized that exactly the same happened to me and one of the priests at the end of the Mayan life. He ended my life or he was part of the system that ended my life. I still don't know exactly how it ended. In another following life, we were married and he got executed and I was left behind. I couldn't handle that either.
Although I already knew this information, suddenly it was put into a logical frame, during my open meditation. I also was able to feel the pain of the ones who did me wrong. I had to break up that meditation and have a walk to get rid of the dense, eery cloud that had come over me. The deep realization of other people's emotions and feelings.
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Mayan Kids - Ancient Mayan Children's Lives and Role in Mayan Society
Mayan Kids - Learn about the History of Mayans Children in Ancient Mayan History. Discover the Roles of Mayan Kids in Mayan Society. Mayan Children's Images, Facts, Books and Film.
mayansandtikal.com
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Cyrus
Senior Registered
Hi, Fireflydancing:
Well, I can't be sure, I never acted as a torturer - at least, not that I can remember it - but I guess it was very different with the Maya.
The key word here is BLOOD. The Maya were obsessed with the idea of the blood.
One of the main religious ceremonies there consisted in their supreme ruler infilcting publicly several cuts on his own penis and letting the drops of blood fall on I don't remember where, - well you get the idea: no matter the pain and no matter who was suffering, what mattered there was blood, that was something sacred.
So, psychologically, there were neither torturers nor tortured - all present were the co-participants of something highly mysterious and sacred.
In the film you see when the would be victims arrive, all the crippled and sick from the crowd try to touch them as something sacred, they treat the would be sacrificed as fortunate and elected - those who were elected to pass a mysterious - though painful - ceremony and to go right to heaven afterwards to meet the gods as a reward.
There was something similar in the religious rituals of the Dacians - the inhabitnts of Dacia, the region that gave origin to the modern Romania, before it was colonized by the ancient Romans. But in Dacia it was only one victim at a a time, and this was the bravest soldier who had, besides, to compete with other candidates - all voluntaries - for the right to be sacrificed and thus sent to the Gods to pass them a message from the Dacian rulers.
And you are wrong about a torturer not being in a "healthy" place.
Studying the history of the Saint Inquisition would make you change this opinion.
Same about the Nazi concentration camps - the wife of the Auschwitz director, e.g., earnestly believed she was living in a paradise, and her husband was a god-sent angel, or smth. like that.
The human psychology is a lot more flexible than some of us think it to be.
Many a torturer sincerely thought (and think) themselves to be full of love and empathy, so, these words are just meaningless labels readily used by all kind of manipulators.
IMHO.
Best Regards.
Hi Cyrus,
The Mayan rulers were great hypocrites. The male rulers were allowed to let their penises provide the ceremonial bloodletting. Not the same with women, those would lose their lives in the act. I know about the status of victims, they offered children because they were loved and precious. I am not going to watch that movie but in my memories, I've also seen some cruel behavior toward prisoners. No matter if they were honored and seen as sacred, it was just cruel.
And about the nazi persons, I guess split personality is also a thing. Same with a lot of serial killers, who led a double life as brave family men.
The Mayan rulers were great hypocrites. The male rulers were allowed to let their penises provide the ceremonial bloodletting. Not the same with women, those would lose their lives in the act. I know about the status of victims, they offered children because they were loved and precious. I am not going to watch that movie but in my memories, I've also seen some cruel behavior toward prisoners. No matter if they were honored and seen as sacred, it was just cruel.
And about the nazi persons, I guess split personality is also a thing. Same with a lot of serial killers, who led a double life as brave family men.
SeaAndSky
Senior Registered
Hi Firefly,
This article pertains to a South American rather than Central American culture, but I still thought you might find it interesting in terms of the (possibly) pervasive use of hallucinogens as part of sacrificial rituals and child sacrifice. It also indicates a good deal of trade leading to the movement and use of such hallucinogens over large areas:
Cordially,
S&S
This article pertains to a South American rather than Central American culture, but I still thought you might find it interesting in terms of the (possibly) pervasive use of hallucinogens as part of sacrificial rituals and child sacrifice. It also indicates a good deal of trade leading to the movement and use of such hallucinogens over large areas:
Cordially,
S&S
Cyrus
Senior Registered
Hi, everybody:
Siberian shamans widely used mushrooms like 'Amanita Muscaria' in their routine procedures along with drums and dancing around a bonfire.
And even in the so classical and European Ancient Greece, the Delphic oracles and pythias stimulated their future predicting abilities by inhaling the volcanic gases that continuously escaped to the surface in the place called Mount Parnassus in Central Greece.
No human sacrifices there, as far as I know.
A modern Russian writer Victor Pelevin recognized once, that some of his most successful novels were created under the effects of 'Amanita Muscaria' mushrooms.
So, what of it?
IMHO.
Regards.
SeaAndSky
Senior Registered
Hi Cyrus,
This is one of the somewhat tempting paths that I will probably never attempt in the quest for mystical/religious knowledge, even though it might be legal and available. Ayahuasca's religious use in the U.S. is legal. Peyote use is also legal in the U.S. within the context of the Native American Church. Some seem to report very positive and curative experiences with that type of thing. At present there is also a good deal of research going on in terms of using "magic mushrooms" in the treatment of PTSD and other mental disorders. So, I keep an open mind on the matter. However, my own experiences even with tranquilizers prior to medical procedures or Nitrous Oxide prior to dental surgery have been negative. This, in combination with my religious beliefs, makes me leery of anything of this type (even if legal).
However, my posting was not meant to be either pro or con with regard to such practices. I made it as I considered the article to be relevant to Firefly's memories of being given a hallucinogen of some type prior to her own sacrifice as a Mayan girl in the pre-Columbian era.
Cordially,
S&S
This is one of the somewhat tempting paths that I will probably never attempt in the quest for mystical/religious knowledge, even though it might be legal and available. Ayahuasca's religious use in the U.S. is legal. Peyote use is also legal in the U.S. within the context of the Native American Church. Some seem to report very positive and curative experiences with that type of thing. At present there is also a good deal of research going on in terms of using "magic mushrooms" in the treatment of PTSD and other mental disorders. So, I keep an open mind on the matter. However, my own experiences even with tranquilizers prior to medical procedures or Nitrous Oxide prior to dental surgery have been negative. This, in combination with my religious beliefs, makes me leery of anything of this type (even if legal).
However, my posting was not meant to be either pro or con with regard to such practices. I made it as I considered the article to be relevant to Firefly's memories of being given a hallucinogen of some type prior to her own sacrifice as a Mayan girl in the pre-Columbian era.
Cordially,
S&S