Souls are not human. Why do they care?
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SeaAndSky
Senior Registered
Hi Spacely,
Assuming your scenario is correct, why would you assume that a mature soul would not benefit from all those lessons and carry that benefit along as it pursued other endeavors? I would think that lessons having to do with compassion, empathy, fairness, justice, etc. etc. would have continuing applicability no matter what plane or realm of existence. Likewise, why would you assume that such a soul never becomes human again, even if it has entered into a wider range of existence? After all, even in our little human fish pond, people who were once in grade school and have learned all of the lessons still come back to teach the ones who are still working their way through the lower grades, etc.
Cordially,
S&S
Assuming your scenario is correct, why would you assume that a mature soul would not benefit from all those lessons and carry that benefit along as it pursued other endeavors? I would think that lessons having to do with compassion, empathy, fairness, justice, etc. etc. would have continuing applicability no matter what plane or realm of existence. Likewise, why would you assume that such a soul never becomes human again, even if it has entered into a wider range of existence? After all, even in our little human fish pond, people who were once in grade school and have learned all of the lessons still come back to teach the ones who are still working their way through the lower grades, etc.
Cordially,
S&S
Lessons in humans are of humans by humans for humans. They dive into each of us just to record our experiences so that our life stories are not lost. The race of soul's act as the akhashic record of our existence. They will never go on to be human again, after we die away.
SeaAndSky
Senior Registered
Hi Shapely,
Your questions and comment appear to be based on a particular set of presuppositions, a view of the universe (or paradigm), that you have not specified with clarity and which may not be shared by others. Why don't you first outline your presuppositions, viewpoint, overview of "the Big Picture", or etc. so that we can actually engage in discussion of the topic with some idea of why you are taking the positions you have stated.
You could start by saying "I believe that . . ." as a prelude to saying what you believe about souls, their origin, purpose, destiny, etc. as well as the origin, purpose, and destiny, etc. of the universe. I.e., the big plan (if any). It would also be a good idea to say "why" you believe what you do in regard to these topics.
Cordially,
S&S
Your questions and comment appear to be based on a particular set of presuppositions, a view of the universe (or paradigm), that you have not specified with clarity and which may not be shared by others. Why don't you first outline your presuppositions, viewpoint, overview of "the Big Picture", or etc. so that we can actually engage in discussion of the topic with some idea of why you are taking the positions you have stated.
You could start by saying "I believe that . . ." as a prelude to saying what you believe about souls, their origin, purpose, destiny, etc. as well as the origin, purpose, and destiny, etc. of the universe. I.e., the big plan (if any). It would also be a good idea to say "why" you believe what you do in regard to these topics.
Cordially,
S&S
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I have posted in this forum before, but OK. A few bullets.
1. Physical Humans have evolved over millions of years from small mammals to party animals. Presumably due to natural environmental pressure (Darwin). Where in there did we need a soul to help? Has science missed the biggest part of Human existence ever? Could be.
2. What does a soul bring to our existence? Can't function w/o one? Or it's all-brain? That's critical, because, if it brings nothing, why are souls inside of us? If it's everything, evolution produced crap... just waiting for a soul to be manually installed at our most vulnerable... as an embryo.
3. If we really don't need a soul, but we definitely have one as the evidence shows, then at some point in the past, the evolving Human Race was invaded by the race of souls. You can use a more friendly term, but if they're not needed, and they do this w/o our knowledge or permission, then seems pretty rude, no? Now, it's nature + nurture + soul. And because even recovering dictators deserve a second chance, your next kid may be exactly that. Note: there's physical damage as some death wounds from previous lives show up physically as birth marks. Could be even phobias pass over too. Not good. Oh... the piano genius is good though. Role the dice
4. If you think logically, whey would a energy-based race want to reincarnate? They are frustrated they cannot work with all this wonderful mass from the big bang. So, they either find a physical race that has evolved, OR they artificially push evolution along until they can occupy that race. Now they can eat pizza, see movies, and have a kiss.
There's a deeply involved text book speculating on some of these things..."Beyond Physicalism - Toward Reconciliation of Science and Spirituality". Clearly, science needs to find answers linking these things with physics.
Enough for now.
1. Physical Humans have evolved over millions of years from small mammals to party animals. Presumably due to natural environmental pressure (Darwin). Where in there did we need a soul to help? Has science missed the biggest part of Human existence ever? Could be.
2. What does a soul bring to our existence? Can't function w/o one? Or it's all-brain? That's critical, because, if it brings nothing, why are souls inside of us? If it's everything, evolution produced crap... just waiting for a soul to be manually installed at our most vulnerable... as an embryo.
3. If we really don't need a soul, but we definitely have one as the evidence shows, then at some point in the past, the evolving Human Race was invaded by the race of souls. You can use a more friendly term, but if they're not needed, and they do this w/o our knowledge or permission, then seems pretty rude, no? Now, it's nature + nurture + soul. And because even recovering dictators deserve a second chance, your next kid may be exactly that. Note: there's physical damage as some death wounds from previous lives show up physically as birth marks. Could be even phobias pass over too. Not good. Oh... the piano genius is good though. Role the dice
4. If you think logically, whey would a energy-based race want to reincarnate? They are frustrated they cannot work with all this wonderful mass from the big bang. So, they either find a physical race that has evolved, OR they artificially push evolution along until they can occupy that race. Now they can eat pizza, see movies, and have a kiss.
There's a deeply involved text book speculating on some of these things..."Beyond Physicalism - Toward Reconciliation of Science and Spirituality". Clearly, science needs to find answers linking these things with physics.
Enough for now.
2 more things.
The CONTAINER analogy:
The only way a person/soul/personality can improve over time is if all experiences and lessons are gathered into a single "container". When you you learn to study to get A's, YOU have collected experience. Same when you pick the right mate, when you perfect your painting skills, and when you learn a new trade at work. YOU become better over time because YOU are the container collected all feedback to improve your journey. Now, if you get destroyed through reincarnation (all experiences lost, cannot remember to leverage any of it), there is no original container left to judge the next life against the previous. So, the decision to reincarnate may have been horrible, or awesome, but there is no original experience set remaining to evaluate it. So it would look like reincarnation experiences seem to be random because you have no collection mechanism telling you to only reincarnate into certain people but avoid others, based on previous experience... because there is NO MORE PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE. So, in order for that to progress, there must be a "container" collecting YOU, and all previous YOU's, and all the subsequent YOU's, to make sure the soul journey is not random/wasted. But, a "container" that collects many, many human lives is by definition not a "human life". Oversoul? Ok... but it's not YOU anymore. A saving grace? Maybe we don't reincarnate, but rather a COPY reincarnates, and we wander heaven forever. I vote for that.
Levels of Spirit Elder Interaction:
There are 4 levels of guidance we may get from the "other side".
1. None. It's all random, good luck to you.
2. Looking at a human set of to-be parents, judging the next life MAY be ok based on genetics and environment and the times in which you're going back. Still, you're not getting guided much. They drift off and leave you.
3. Spirit guides, before reincarnation, are able to see every detail of your to-be life, warning of the bad and the good, all the way to the end. On comes the amnesia, if you agree, and all of it happens. They change nothing, to make sure it's as-seen.
4. Elders don't just see your future on Earth, they CREATE the details to make SURE stuff happens to you. If you committed a crime in the previous life, they make SURE you're the victim in the next life. The are ensuring your suffering , ensuring your successes... forcing it all, unlike in #3 where they passively predicted it. That would imply, returning criminals MUST experience being a victim, which would mean Spirit is not interested in preventing suffering, because some people are "scheduled" to suffer. I guess society would be a deliberate hell at that point.
Yes those are extreme. But the truth is in there somewhere... and as we move down the list, I get angrier at them. They can help, but won't?
I wonder if this reincarnation "process" is "working"? Whatever it's supposed to be accomplishing, is it working?
Let's ask 1st thing when we arrive.
The CONTAINER analogy:
The only way a person/soul/personality can improve over time is if all experiences and lessons are gathered into a single "container". When you you learn to study to get A's, YOU have collected experience. Same when you pick the right mate, when you perfect your painting skills, and when you learn a new trade at work. YOU become better over time because YOU are the container collected all feedback to improve your journey. Now, if you get destroyed through reincarnation (all experiences lost, cannot remember to leverage any of it), there is no original container left to judge the next life against the previous. So, the decision to reincarnate may have been horrible, or awesome, but there is no original experience set remaining to evaluate it. So it would look like reincarnation experiences seem to be random because you have no collection mechanism telling you to only reincarnate into certain people but avoid others, based on previous experience... because there is NO MORE PREVIOUS EXPERIENCE. So, in order for that to progress, there must be a "container" collecting YOU, and all previous YOU's, and all the subsequent YOU's, to make sure the soul journey is not random/wasted. But, a "container" that collects many, many human lives is by definition not a "human life". Oversoul? Ok... but it's not YOU anymore. A saving grace? Maybe we don't reincarnate, but rather a COPY reincarnates, and we wander heaven forever. I vote for that.
Levels of Spirit Elder Interaction:
There are 4 levels of guidance we may get from the "other side".
1. None. It's all random, good luck to you.
2. Looking at a human set of to-be parents, judging the next life MAY be ok based on genetics and environment and the times in which you're going back. Still, you're not getting guided much. They drift off and leave you.
3. Spirit guides, before reincarnation, are able to see every detail of your to-be life, warning of the bad and the good, all the way to the end. On comes the amnesia, if you agree, and all of it happens. They change nothing, to make sure it's as-seen.
4. Elders don't just see your future on Earth, they CREATE the details to make SURE stuff happens to you. If you committed a crime in the previous life, they make SURE you're the victim in the next life. The are ensuring your suffering , ensuring your successes... forcing it all, unlike in #3 where they passively predicted it. That would imply, returning criminals MUST experience being a victim, which would mean Spirit is not interested in preventing suffering, because some people are "scheduled" to suffer. I guess society would be a deliberate hell at that point.
Yes those are extreme. But the truth is in there somewhere... and as we move down the list, I get angrier at them. They can help, but won't?
I wonder if this reincarnation "process" is "working"? Whatever it's supposed to be accomplishing, is it working?
Let's ask 1st thing when we arrive.
Well, as a motivational speaker, he is the teacher?
Cyrus
Senior Registered
"...Small parasitic aliens called "Souls", who travel to planets inserting themselves into a host body of that planet's dominant species while suppressing the host's consciousness, have taken over the human race. Deeming humans too violent to deserve the planet, they have now almost successfully conquered Earth. The original owner's consciousness is erased, but the Souls can access the host's memories, and occupied hosts are identifiable by silver rings in their eyes...."
This is what "I believe", as prompted by S&S. (this is kind of random, I had it typed out in various forms over a few days)
The universe and everything in it was designed and created for life to begin and to evolve into something we can inhabit, as souls. This is why we see intelligence, but not full consciousness in many animals on this planet (although that's hotly debated); so that many would evolve into suitable hosts for souls.
We aren't trying to get back to "over there". It's the opposite. We, that souls that elected to leave "over there", wanted more. Time doesn't exist over there. There's no want, no need, no individuality.
Perhaps our leaving is what created this universe. A destabilization that created an imbalance and then boom. Everything came into being. Perhaps also, the first few souls that left or later, who helped and ushered along humankind, were mistakenly called angels and gods, later by religion.
We're here to learn, through diversity, to embrace or similarities and learn to love each while also experiencing this dimension.
Without linear time, there's no meaning, growth, understanding or anything without a reference point. Here, we have that. We know before, the present and the future. We can measure ourselves and our choices against the measure of time. We all have free will. We all can choose to make good decisions and bad. Nobody makes us leave over there and nobody makes us return (forever).
Long story short, we're here because we choose to be. The reason why there is so much strife and languishing is because it's up to each of us to find and create meaning in each of our own lives. It's not an easy task. That's what the point of live and multiple lives should be, to find meaning and live it.
The universe and everything in it was designed and created for life to begin and to evolve into something we can inhabit, as souls. This is why we see intelligence, but not full consciousness in many animals on this planet (although that's hotly debated); so that many would evolve into suitable hosts for souls.
We aren't trying to get back to "over there". It's the opposite. We, that souls that elected to leave "over there", wanted more. Time doesn't exist over there. There's no want, no need, no individuality.
Perhaps our leaving is what created this universe. A destabilization that created an imbalance and then boom. Everything came into being. Perhaps also, the first few souls that left or later, who helped and ushered along humankind, were mistakenly called angels and gods, later by religion.
We're here to learn, through diversity, to embrace or similarities and learn to love each while also experiencing this dimension.
Without linear time, there's no meaning, growth, understanding or anything without a reference point. Here, we have that. We know before, the present and the future. We can measure ourselves and our choices against the measure of time. We all have free will. We all can choose to make good decisions and bad. Nobody makes us leave over there and nobody makes us return (forever).
Long story short, we're here because we choose to be. The reason why there is so much strife and languishing is because it's up to each of us to find and create meaning in each of our own lives. It's not an easy task. That's what the point of live and multiple lives should be, to find meaning and live it.
I'd like to add: Curiosity. Simple as that.
In my view, we created this ourselves and now we live in it.
But we didn't bring in our full potential, only part of it. Just some handicaps that make the challenge more interesting. Free will is a thing, combined with amnesia and a lot of so-called 'evil' comes up. Just for the time being. At the end of the day, we gather around the multi-dimensional campfire, we exchange our findings and experiences. No judgments or punishments.
In my view, we created this ourselves and now we live in it.
But we didn't bring in our full potential, only part of it. Just some handicaps that make the challenge more interesting. Free will is a thing, combined with amnesia and a lot of so-called 'evil' comes up. Just for the time being. At the end of the day, we gather around the multi-dimensional campfire, we exchange our findings and experiences. No judgments or punishments.
It is possible "souls" artificially pushed evolution, everywhere in the Universe, forward, so that they can work with matter. Seems fun. And it's an ongoing experiment where "amnesia" is an unfortunate effect they are trying to eliminate. Total Recall is what will enable long term plans, lasting more than a physical lifetime, to be implemented. They're probably working to evolve us so we can work on bigger plans. Fine. Also, boy did our scientists miss a major driver in all-evolution. Time to write that memo
Be careful who you label as "we", in the we decided to be here. No way me, as a Human Personality, would elect destruction through reincarnation. Why did I work so hard? If our personality doesn't survive completely over there, it's not "we" who decide to come back, it's an oversoul who remembers being inside of you. That's a different decider. The suffering is because of amnesia... once souls have total recall, we'll get on with LONG term plans. I mean THEY will. Interstellar, Terraforming, etc.
Just browsing ... Interesting hypotheses!
Maybe I missed it ... What do you base your hypotheses on?
I'm asking because you can't know whom to believe: which guru, dogma, books, stories, ... is right (if any), and which are wrong. In my opinion, the closest we can get to the truth is by turning inward and tapping our own inner source of knowledge and guidance, while making sure that we leave aside all our beliefs and expectations, to minimize distortions.
We all are always on some levels of trance, open to suggestions to various degrees, mostly unaware of that.
Maybe I missed it ... What do you base your hypotheses on?
I'm asking because you can't know whom to believe: which guru, dogma, books, stories, ... is right (if any), and which are wrong. In my opinion, the closest we can get to the truth is by turning inward and tapping our own inner source of knowledge and guidance, while making sure that we leave aside all our beliefs and expectations, to minimize distortions.
We all are always on some levels of trance, open to suggestions to various degrees, mostly unaware of that.
Yep, that's what I believe. We made it, we live it. It's great work and doesn't rule out other hypotheses about Creation, Creator, and so forth. The system is so huge that it all connects to all. I also believe we are not all 'the same'. There is a 'division of tasks' that is not comparable to our society's hierarchy.
Just personal. Analyzing specific dreams throughout my life and above all a spiritual experience in which I could ask all kinds of questions and in which I got more answers than I could hold on to. I think a lot of that information sank down in me and comes to the surface once in a while.
(1) I guess we invented stupidity as well during the process: greed, cruelty, violence, and so forth. The consequences of those possible behaviors are not so healthy for a generative system. Modern agriculture has destroyed the topsoil. Just to name one (mega huge) problem worldwide.
Personally, I think the competition between humans is not so bad, it's the fun of playing a game. The downside of this concept is when the healthy competition turns into destructive power games. That breaks the systems and in the end, we all lose everything. It's up to us - as a collective - to start to understand the system we live in and to align with it. If not, 'things' will spiral down quickly (chemical wars, desertification of agricultural areas, global diseases, unhappy people in general). This is not just a political manifest but logical thinking.
Seen from a much higher perspective, the problem can be solved by starting all over again somewhere else in the Universe. 'We' can just let our 'project Earth' die out and leave the premises and go somewhere else. Start a new home, new creation, new evolution, and so on. Just because we didn't learn from our mistakes against the basics of Life in an interconnected generative system. A failed project but not the end of times.
(2) Yes, find your own meaning and pure joy in living. I believe we have multi-layered purposes, a list of personal (and impersonal) reasons why we came to our life here. A lot of people discovered common threads between multiple past lives. Concepts we explore (out of curiosity) from multiple angles throughout our lives.
This finding your own meaning is really not an easy task because finding and experiencing joy in living often goes against the expectations of society. Following your heart sometimes doesn't offer a lot of money. Some of us thrive and enjoy life while raising horses, for example, although this lifestyle will never make us rich (there are exceptions of course but not everybody is able to become the owner of the stable, while there are more people enjoying the work of taking care of the animals).
My understanding is that this is a school, continuously joined by new pupils in need of education, while promotions of graduates leave it.
From this point of view, there'll always be a distribution of wisdom / ignorance. Stupidity is a special case where ignorance is accompanied by arrogance and / or stubbornness.
I believe that the physical-reality is a hyperspace (time, 3D-space, probability) in which each one of us subconsciously adheres to, aligns with, the possible-reality that is closest to our individual system of beliefs.
From this perspective, practically all possibilities are available; there isn't only this physical-reality we currently experience when awake. There are physical-realities / civilizations in which people live a much more evolved physical-life (in the past, present, or future, in terms of physical-time), as there are physical-realities / civilizations that went much worse than ours did.
We navigate through these probabilities individually through the conscious and unconscious choices we continuously make, with free-will, according to our individual level of evolvement, and beliefs.
All these probable physical-realities are. It is just: which one we subconsicously adhere to, align with.
Impossible to replicate. I was picked up and brought somewhere in Space, while my body was still at home. They came to me - not the other way. And they had a request to me, they wanted me to understand some things, so I could eventually change some decisions I was about to make. Or better say, they wanted me to see the greater picture.